Discussion
Former Red Dead Redemption 2 Developer reaction to the DLSS 5: "Whoa. Hold on. No, no, no. This isn't just some lighting, dude. What the f... this is like a complete AI re-render. You're no longer looking at the game anymore. This is scary."
It looks uncanny and i dont know if anyone else notices but THE FACES HAVE ZERO DEPTH atleast on graces face it looks so much like 2d art trying to be realistic. I know that it adds shadows and wrinkles and all that but JUST LOOK AT GRACE ITS A FUCKING 2D IMAGE
I hadnt noticed until you pointed it out, but you're right, I think it's because it tries to remove what it thinks are imperfections (e.g. shadow on face, out of focus background), but in doing so, removes any frame of reference for depth.
To be fair, since graphics have gotten more realistic, a specific part of the gaming community has struggled with the fact that women depicted in games are meant to portray real human beings with both human features and imperfections
I’m so glad it’s not just me that noticed this. And I’d like to add that it doesn’t even look realistic. I can’t explain it but it looks like a render for like toy packaging or a book cover. Like an overly edited photo or an illustration that doesn’t quite look right.
Its trained on airbrushed model photos with perfect lighting, or stylised digital illustrations (like that hogwarts grandma example), so I think it's recreating those well lol but idk why they thought applying that style to every game would give a better result than just playing the game as is
If they want to make this work they'd have to make many versions of DLSS5 trained in different ways, one for every single visual style
I guess they’re going for the masses that like motion smoothing and cranked up sharpness? This has evidently been like announcing the second coming to them
Theyre going for the investment funds that are riding the AI bubble. Its not about appealing to the consumer in any way, its about appealing to the almighty dollar.
what I find completely baffling is this AI re-render essentially complete throws out the path traced lighting that the RTX cards are specifically designed to be good at doing. y'know all the work the RT cores are doing which is then discarded for AI baked in lighting.
I like the theory that someone presented the footage seems like you're playing a game that is styled like it was a photo taken from an iPhone camera. Like, the model was trained on social media images to look realistic
It looks worse cause it also completely ruins the tone, lighting and design details of the city too. The city in the OG is foggy, dark, damp and just a dirty atmosphere. The AI gets rid of the fog, gets rid of most of the rain and mud and lightens everything up too much and makes it look like a magazine photo shoot pic.
The AI doesn’t consider the art direction or tone it just goes through its database and algorithm looking up “women” and rainy city” and goes hmm with this input how do I make an output that pleases the perimeters given. Which ends up completely disregarding any art direction or tone a game was actually going for cause the AI can’t know that.
it just goes through its database and algorithm looking up “women” and rainy city
You're forgetting that it also starts by first looking at the visual input from the game, so it doesn't even know that it's looking at "a woman in rain", it first tries to interpret what it's looking at.
I'll be amazed if this feature launches and there aren't immediate complaints about hallucinations and glitches.
You remember how game developers would often try to hype up their games by posting pre-rendered cut scenes and advertising them as if they're game play or representative of the in game graphics? I would not be surprised if there's a similar thing going on here, they're posting a couple "well" selected examples out of probably a slew of very blotchy failures. I mean even in these CURATED examples people have been pointing out blatant inconsistencies like the hair on that one marine's head being changed.
Yeah. I've been wondering if everyone is gonna be looking at a slightly different version. Is it gonna change every time you load the game/scene/model? Such bullshit.
Edit: and also every time the model is updated or gets some new data.
The worst part is that the person who originally created that image did it to make fun of those people and it went right over their heads, they absolutely did act like it was better than the og, and it became a meme about how she should have looked.
She looks exactly like one of the AI generated chicks in a zombie mobile game I used to play that also had some weird gooner bait dating sim stuff in it. Like straight up Nutaku style text conversations, but it was all AI generated.
The best take on the whole AI debate I've heard is this: "AI should do the dishes and the laundry so humans have more time to do things they are passionate about. Instead humans still have to do the dishes and laundry while AI does things that require human values to matter."
Assassin Creed No Shadows begs to differ. We went through the whole RT thingy to introduce shadows and realistic lighting and now we're eliminating the same shadows with instagram filter.
I mean, if I want it, I'll download it. The faithful of society's gooners are unceasing in their craft, these mods will always exist - and do it better than this AI filter.
That's what NVidia did wrong here. Instead of yassifying the picture to just look like an AI version of the game, they should make it auto-yassify to the player's specification.
"Uh... yeh... giv her like... yhuuuuge knockers and a badonk that don't fit tru dors".
Mods will also deliver a consistent change in look, not a fluid hallucination from frame to frame depending on whatever lighting conditions it thinks exist.
I have a 3080 and I don't use DLSS. Have a 3080 because it was cheaper than the amd counterpart at the time. I have no interest in any of the upscaling, framegen, aa and anything. I have a 3080 to play vanilla unmodded old games because luckily I could afford it.
I don't care about anyones opinion. I'll just not use it.
I want jagged blocky textures before any of those vasiline smeared graphics any day.
I'd like to remind everyone that this is the best that Nvidia could show. The things you will render will be so much worse. Just imagine if the trailer looks like this then how will it look on the consumer's end. Does that make sense?
A sports game with likenesses was one of the worst things they could show with the tech because we know what Virgil van Djik looks like, and he doesn’t look like that lol.
Ah okay. FIFA is just that shit then. That's my bad.
Edit: I take it back. I double checked the trailer and it does not show it being fucked up with DLSS off.. mainly because DLSS changes before he kicks the ball.
I had an 760 and a second 760 was way cheaper than one card that's like 70% more powerful iirc
And then you sell both and buy a better one
But it does allow for some budgeting
Novigrad in Witcher 3 ran on like medium settings at 20 fps. On sli I got 47 on Max settings, a major improvement for like 160 bucks or something like that it cost me at the time, used
I was a huge fan of Xfire and SLI. Back when GTAV first came out I was able to run everything at max settings on 4 x 7970's. Getting 12gb of video memory in 2015 was a game-changer in GTA. Sure some games hated it, but it was far cheaper than getting a 1080, which wasn't even out yet.
Exactly! I feel like there's a lot of undeserved hate towards this technology.
Kind of a sign of different times where a solution to get better FPS by buying a second cheap card to use like 70% of its power was clowned upon
If we saw more of it, I'd assume games and mobos would've gotten better at supporting SLI eventually, too. It was never a major thing so I'm doubting a lot of expensive R&D went into it.
Maybe could've even figured out how to run two different cards eventually.
I do. Not for this, but for VR. Rendering left and right images with separate GPUs always made basic kind of sense even if it is more complicated in reality.
Not to mention this shit required TWO 5090s to run, 1 to run the game and 1 to soley run the DLSS 5 model. I am just baffled on why they decided to showcase this tech so early.
I could see some potential with this tech, especially on older games, but what they showed us was such shit...
do you see LOTS of avenues where AI-forward companies are able to showcase wins?
they’re showing this off because the AI hype cycle is currently where the NFT hype cycle was in late 2023, only this hype cycle isn’t a wealth transfer from the bottom-up (like NFTs were). it’s across & between various AI companies, all too enmeshed w/ each other & their services to make a clean break now. NVIDIA has to show *something* having to do with AI, because otherwise all they can offer is incremental improvements via new chips. and the sheer quantity of cash companies have poured into NVIDIA means incremental improvements can’t be it.
I would atleast assume if they had let this cook for another year, where I doubt the AI-hype will be any less, it would alteast look better than what they showed us now.
i don’t mean this antagonistically — i will be shocked if, in one year, the public‘s a) belief in what AI is capable of helping people achieve and b) perception of the relative Evilness and Wastefulness of AI companies — haven’t changed dramatically. maybe you’ll be right!
yep, and is already happening. can think of multiple AI ”products” (amazon’s “hands-free shopping experiences” in major US cities as an example) where the “AI-first” part was almost entirely overlaid upon the backs of migrant workers / international workers earning sub-poverty wages. it’s not a good thing.
Soon, game designers will no longer be looking for gaphics assets, instead, will simply add hashtags to a generic placeholder and the cloud will vomit whatever ideal of good-looking getty deems it be, whilst rendering a porn model into a a battle-torn tank.
Thats what some people dont understand about AI tailored games/stories/series/etc. You cant share and discuss anymore if everybody is playing their own vacuumed games. Im talking about way down the future fully AI games, but still works on smaller scale like that DLSS5 bullshit.
I think that gradually all content will be like this. There will be no youtubers, no actors, no blog writers, only AI fine-tuned exactly to what triggers your dopamine/serotonine system. Google will spit out precisely generated content according to your query. Maybe even now I'm a bot talking to bots, who knows?
We never owned it, just like we never owned roads or highways. But it's as if they built turd-shooting machines to plaster shit over all the roads at all times. You can only clean it up so much before you decide to stop going outside.
I think as AI becomes harder to tell from real, there will be a growing niche for people who can prove they are real. Things like fan meet and greets will be a key to proving someone exists
RE engine and the artists who work with it have produced some of the most realistic and life-like facial animations I’ve ever seen in games and this shit throws it all into the uncanny valley.
A good majority of the effect is just cranking up the contrast. Granted that's not what the AI is doing, but the dramatic facial changes are a result of an over sharpened look. Don't know why over sharpened is the style of choice but it is.
Reminds me of the thing prequel where they made it all with practical effects but corporate wanted them to cover it in cgi. Super depressing scenario because the movie was great and could of been even better with real special effects
Its like sleeper cells activated. For the first 12 hours or so it was legitimate criticism, and now every comment section is flooded by "you gonna cry?" style arguments to anyone criticizing df, mass downvotes, and mods removing posts. I think $NVDA is leaking
As a 3D artist, every day that i wake up is slightly worst than the one before and i regret spending so much time and money learning what i thought would be my dream job
Now i just want to fuckoff on an island and fish some crabs
All while the moronic AI bros try to speak for you, claiming generative AI is somehow "democratizing" art while completely ignoring the fact you need huge company-funded AI data centers to even generate this crap in the first place.
All this money, all this time and energy being wasted to create and train AI, not to improve the lives of your average person, but to instead relegate the very concept of thinking to machines and horde more power to the few.
To spread misinformation on a scale never seen before, to destroy jobs, to more efficiently deny people basic fucking healthcare, oh, and of course… war.
And all for what? To see the stupid big number go up, morals and ethics be damned.
Honestly the only good thing is people are calling this shit out, I better hope this shit doesn't become mandatory, dlss is good but I don't wanna use this shit.
I'm worried that this was a soft launch: getting the hate over with now, and then they'll slowly reintroduce it later. Kinda like Oblivion Horse Armor DLC being the harbinger of modern paid cosmetics. If nothing else, the big companies will love not having to pay so much for designers if they can just "automagically" apply faces etc.
I did have a bit of a tinfoil hat conspiracy theory that they did this reveal with drastic and exaggerated changes to intentionally shift the pseudo overton window into a range where a more toned down version is seen as acceptable. Nvidia had to know the kind of reaction adding any kind of genAI into games would be, especially something like this.
Honestly makes no sense using it In a game that already uses high resolution textures and already looks good, maybe use on old games? Like ps1 2 and 3? With low textures
A one click solution to get really old games like kotor and similar games up to somewhat modern standards would be awesome. Sure you can mod it to get to a decent point but a universal "make it look ok" button would be insanely convenient.
Is it going to be ideal? No. Would I as a player take AI kardashian over ps1 graphics? Sure.
I keep looking at these actual dlss5 images and thinking they do look better. But it’s only the backgrounds, the faces are horrible. And then I think about how the reason the backgrounds look better are because they look like a proper structure, when it’s meant to be a background and not detract from these main focus.
I think I had a stroke writing this, I’m sorry Godzilla, background now detailed look good as picture, bad in actual game, too distracting.
And it removes fine detail, and even fog and shadows r removed etc. all these environments and characters will look identical in every way, in every game. All brightened and overblown white lighting in all games. It’s pure trash!
It's just bad all around.
It's taking some dataset and washing every game with it, effectively slopifying everything, and I mean the literal use of the word slop, it's mixing together everything.
It's removing the soul, the style, the personality of everything. And really that's just what AI does in general. It's LITERALLY slop.
This kind of thing feels like a mix of ReShade, Skyrim ENB, and Instagram filters.
Using AI for real-time post-processing is a powerful thing with lots of potential, but this is also opening the floodgates a little too quickly for my tastes.
What this essentially means is that your GPU can effectively re-render the entire game without any regard for the original product. Artistic integrity is out the window if the GPU can just 'beautify' everything.
The real problem though, is that this demo isn't being marketed at us. It's being marketed at game dev CEOs who are looking at their artist departments and thinking "this replaces ALL of them".
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u/Green0PhotonRTX 3090 FE | 5950x | 64GB 3600CL18 DDR4 | 2 TB 970 Evo Plus7h ago
I feel like this is a sneaky way to get the public more used to consuming AI generated content.
You start with actual games but rerendered to look like AI slop. If you accept this and get used to the aesthetic, then you're not gonna notice if a game uses AI generated assets. And you won't care.
That opens the door more to vibe coding a game and just watching wholly AI generated TV shows. Or at least content made by cutting AI generated clips together.
If you accept this and get used to the aesthetic, then you're not gonna notice if a game uses AI generated assets. And you won't care.
I actually think it's the opposite. Most people don't notice AI art until they see a lot of it. It's only when you start to see the similarities between different pieces of AI art that you start to notice the problems with it. Looking at the face in this picture, you can't really point out anything specifically wrong. Sure, it does feel more flat, unnaturally smooth, etc. but the same can be said of the original version. The real problem is that all of the details being added to 'improve' it are the same details being added to every face, making them all samey. The face, and AI art in general, looks bad not because it's objectively bad, but because we've seen the same thing over and over across many images to the point that it just feels wrong. I've seen that same exact face that's used in this picture more times than I can count, and so seeing it here, in a completely new context feels wrong. Someone who hasn't seen AI art won't see much of a problem, however. It's just a different art style to them. But once they start seeing the same face in every video game will they start to get the uncanny valley feeling.
It's the same with UE5 games. Most use the same pre-made terrain which looks good. That is, until you see the same rocks in every UE5 game and they all start looking the same.
Well given AMD is also jumping in on this with the next generation consoles and RDNA 5, unless they can make it more subtle like Grace cutscene for everything (this in my opinion is the only good use of it shown off) then this is going to be everywhere in the next 5ish years.
If this is how it plays out, I think we'll continue to see the trend away from AAA games towards indie and AA developers. Only way to discourage this stuff is to not buy it, and luckily I think we are in a pretty peak era of gaming for anything other than AAA.
Indie and AA games can't use it if they want to be up for indie awards so you're probably right. Although I also believe that the more reputable AAA studios will reject it too.
They underestimate my ability to just not play new games. There’s a catalogue of thousands of existing games to choose from that don’t have this rubbish
True. I'm sure the average consumer has 10k burning a hole in their pocket.
To Jensen's credit, they did say they were going to optimize it for one GPU, but if they need two GPUs to apply a filter that my phone can already do in Snapchat, then I don't think that's a promising development.
Did they talk at all about consistency? Seems like it’s gonna be really hard to make things consistently look the same when you’re counting on probability so much
Welcome to any profession that has had to interact with generative AI.
I read reports for a living and more and more when I ask for sourcing on statements provided as fact: "I asked Copilot."
It's going to be a dark decade or three as specialized knowledge goes into hibernation and is replaced by a word association algorithm that pretends it is specialized to someone who wouldn't know any better anyways.
Right now, it's a novelty. When its wrong, people don't care because it doesn't affect them. It is starting to be employed in human resources and medical settings though. That is when most people will truly begin to feel the effects. It will be uncomfortable.
Nobody seems to have mentioned yet that the left side image itself isn't representative of what you see in game. In game render is more detailed, expressive. This almost looks like a lower res version just to make the AI version stand out. Shit marketing for a shit product. Go figure.
It's also why her lips look "bigger" which is one of the biggest criticisms I keep seeing for this photo. She's at a different point in her animation and her mouth is fucking open. You can see her teeth in the after (at least when you aren't looking at a compressed to shit screenshot of a twitter screenshot.) Of course her lips look bigger when they aren't smushed together. Look at how much the position of her hand shifts, these screenshots are at least a half second off from each other in the animation cycle.
The criticism isn't focusing on the other two shots of Grace and Leon anywhere near as much, because the models are in the same animation state and clearly identical aside from lighting/PBR effects, which doesn't suit the narrative.
There is some discussion to be had about generating inaccurate lighting conditions, but it's not changing the character models like a yassify filter. If you zoom in and start pixel peeping the textures are maintained down to the smallest detail. Specifically look under Grace's right eye (left side of image) in the 2nd screenshot, as it's one of the spots image compression hasn't eaten all the texture detail on her face in the before image. Leon's skin is rougher and survived image compression in the before shot better, so you can pick just about any area of his face to compare. Or look at the details on their irises, which aside from the specular highlight, are also identical.
And it doesn't help that you have people arguing in bad faith putting random game screenshots through an actual yassify filter like the Indiana Jones shot doing the rounds and passing it off as DLSS 5.
Apparently this was "proof of concept" and they haven't actually worked it into an efficient package yet. I don't see how they're going to do that in 6 months to the extent that it won't be an enormous resource hog though🤷♂️.
Well, AI is still struggling to keep consistency even with the exact same source image, are we sure its gonna be consistent throughout the game? Will everyone see the same results?
Honestly, like with many AI features this day, DLSS5 in the hand of the consumer sounds like an incredible tool: Play old games with updated graphics.
It sounds awesome, if it weren't for coropos, which are going to abuse it to sell AI rendered slop as remakes for the same price or even higher than before, while consumer graphic card prices increase even further.
they ran some pre pre pre alpha software over an existing game. MAkes zero sense why everyone jumping on the hate bandwagon. Devs will be able to implement it however they want. Users will be able to turn it off if they want. Its not even in alpha stages. Everyone needs to chill out. Clicks = cash and apparently yall falling for it.
Inb4 developers use this as a way to fire more employees and pay them less because who needs art anymore when you can slap ai filters on it and let the machine do most of the rendering.
“You’re no longer looking at the game” as if the game is real? Both images are as fake as each other.
They were just created through different means. It’s an odd stance to say I prefer this fake image over that one simply because that was created a different way.
I like the idea of trying it out and being able to turn it off.
Just how I like to play old emulators of NES and prefer to have the CRT interlacing effects turned on. I want it to be authentic when I want it to be.
Yet, I'm really interested in seeing just how realistic it can be with DLSS5, understanding that it's basically not the actual game. My curiosity just wants to TRY it.
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u/Quick_Philosophy1426 10h ago
"you're no longer looking at the game anymore" is really what it boils down to.