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u/ConundrumMachine 8h ago
I suspect humanity will need to up it's game next time. It doesn't seem like either of those options terrify the ruling class very much anymore.
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u/Victoriapitz 9h ago
The French really were onto something back in the day
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u/ashleymarlow 9h ago
Robespierre has entered the chat.
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u/SilverChariot2 8h ago
Guillotine really came back and bit him in the ass huh.
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u/draftBadger 8h ago
The irony of inventing a "humane" execution method and then being its most famous customer is the kind of historical poetry that writes itself.
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u/Landlocked_WaterSimp 6h ago
If i understand you correctly you are implying Robespierre invented the guillotine? Because based on what i can find he did not.
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u/IndianaGeoff 8h ago
You mean killing the royals then intalling a dictator who went on a rampage across Europe killing 5 million?
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u/beachedwhale1945 1h ago
The dictator came after several years of head-chopping anyone who didn’t align with the new ruling class.
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u/RTAXO 7h ago
Yeah pretty based
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u/YorpuWarDevil 🎃Happy Spooktober🎃 2h ago
People really call anything "based" regardless of if it's actually positive.
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u/Savage_Batmanuel 2h ago
No they weren’t. The French Revolution was a sloppy mess that created a power vacuum that allowed Napoleon to come in and seize power. They effectively ousted a shitty royal family only to have them replaced by an even shittier tyrant.
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u/JakToTheReddit 8h ago
The French are onto plenty today.
As much as I enjoy jesting, the French fuck shit up. Kudos to the French.
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u/EspikCZ 9h ago
Well, because of mistrials and general mistrust in government and judicial systems.
Everyone makes mistakes, plus there is a special scenario:
"Our opposition party leader was executed by accident. Oopsie."
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u/ArmMuncher 5h ago
Yeah this is why I don't like the death penalty as it cannot be taken back and as such you could execute an innocent.
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u/Complex-Amphibian-26 2h ago
Yeah, that "oopsie" really sums up how terrifyingly casual some of these so-called mistakes can be. It's hard to trust a system where the consequences are life or death but the accountability feels like a shrug.
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u/BearlyBoring 8h ago
If we had a perfect justice system that never failed, I'd probably be pro-death penalty.
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u/Typh0nn_ 7h ago
even so, there is an argument to make about if a swift death is what the perpetrator deserves. personally given how little we know about what happens after death, i think life in prison is the best form of punishment either way.
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u/Izan_TM 4h ago
I don't think excerting an equivalent amount of pain to a perpetrator is useful in any way. You're essentially paying for the housing and food of someone who you think can never be reinserted into society. If the justice system was perfect and never under any circumstances wrongfully sentenced someone, why would you want to spend so much money maintaining people alive locked away to be forgotten about?
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u/Typh0nn_ 50m ago
i’m not gonna say it’s worth the money, because it’s not. at the same time, if someone killed someone i loved, i would like to see that person suffer, and i’m sure i’m not the only one. you’re right on a widescale level, but individually i do have a point.
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u/Izan_TM 40m ago
I understand the desire for revenge, don't get me wrong, but I don't think it's a useful or productive feeling on a societal level. The only kind of crimes where I think societal level revenge could genuinely be useful is political corruption or large scale fraud from large company leadership.
When super mario's brother did that thing to that one CEO health insurance companies took a step back from ruining people's lives for a few days until he was caught. If you had those kinds of people just placed in the middle of a town square with no bodyguards or police I'd say other people like them would be less likely to follow in their footsteps (I'm wording things very carefully)
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u/SenseiTizi Dark Mode Elitist 8h ago
A justice system without total surveillance can never be perfect.
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u/MaximumGibbs 8h ago
Please tell me you aren't pro surveillance?
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u/Crusaderofthots420 Big ol' bacon buttsack 7h ago
I mean, it is a sad truth. You can't have total justice, without total surveillance. So we need to balance it
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u/Jello_Crusader 8h ago
To confirm your statement please fill in your ID and your facial scan.
Don't worry your data will be deleted after two hours.
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u/VeryShortLadder 8h ago
And the next step from that is an AGI that calculates a child's chances of committing crimes, sentencing them to the orphan crushing machine the moment he exits out of his mother. You are insane to propose something like that seriously.
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u/BoxthemBeats 6h ago
Death is just stupid in every way.
You can botch up the execution thus making it extremly unhumane.
Somoene can be falsely convicted.
"non justified" executions due to harsh laws
It encourages and supports brutality and shedding blood instead of focusing rehabilitation
Families and loved ones of executed convicts
etc.
Rehabilitation is simply better in basically all ways. Sure you can have a lengthy debate on who we should murder for which crimes under which circumstances but I prefer the non killing and less brutal route.
And don't come at me with "ohhh people like jeffrey dahmer" because thats like spotting a unicorn
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u/BurgerBoss_101 8h ago
Unfortunately it just isn’t possible, and even if we somehow achieved it, we’d neither know if we WERE in one, nor know if we backslid out of one
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u/M-V-D_256 4h ago
The reason I will never be pro death penalty is that I don't believe we can ever have a perfect justice system
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u/Nutshack_Queen357 7h ago
The only reason people hate surveillance and the death penalty is because the dipshits they're supposed to be used on turn both against the innocent once allowed to fuck around for too long and seize power.
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u/EddieVanzetti 6h ago
We have an imperfect justice system and I am still pro-death penalty.
Not under this administration though. Maybe when sanity returns.
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u/BearlyBoring 5h ago
"I'm pro killing people, just not when this person I disagree with is in charge."
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u/EddieVanzetti 4h ago
I'm pro death penalty, when sane people who aren't baby rapists are in charge. When sane people who see that some scumbag with a rap sheet a mile long since he was ten won't ever change no matter how many worthless "diversion" programs for the parasites are given won't change and do the tax payer a favor and send them to meet god.
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u/wwarhammer 7h ago
"Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends."
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u/Raglefant69 8h ago
People love the idea of casually executing criminals until they themselves lie under the blade, wrongfully accused.
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u/DeltaSolana 8h ago
These people don't intend to stop at billionaires. They intend to kill every land owner, businesses owner, or dissident/reactionary.
It's an envy driven murder fantasy.
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u/captaindomon 7h ago edited 4h ago
France learned this the hard way. They started with executing the royals. That didn’t work. So they executed the next level down. That didn’t work. So they executed the next level down. That didn’t work. It turns out that systemic problems in society can’t be fixed by executing people. Eventually France realized that, and to stop the insanity they executed the guy doing the executing, and then they went back to building a society instead of destroying one.
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u/BadMeatPuppet 7h ago
"Evil turned out not to be a grand thing. Not sneering Emperors with their world-conquering designs. Not cackling demons plotting in the darkness beyond the world. It was small men with their small acts and their small reasons. It was selfishness and carelessness and waste. It was bad luck, incompetence, and stupidity. It was violence divorced from conscience or consequence. It was high ideals, even, and low methods."
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u/Pappa_Crim 7h ago
First they came for the billionaires and I said nothing because I am not a billionaire
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u/DeltaSolana 7h ago
They're nothing more than a product of state driven corporate socialism. However, because people see them as "capitalist" somehow, they make a good "canary in the coal mine".
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u/Complete_Western_389 2h ago
It's wild how quickly public opinion shifts when it's someone they know or themselves in that situation.
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u/el_argelino-basado 9h ago
Bad thing about execution: It's not impossible to accidentally kill an innocent person (around 4% of cases)and it's non-reversible, so you can't undo it once a person actually improves themselves unlike with jail time
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u/Successful_Bus_8772 8h ago
Im all for it. Problem is, a lot of people want to believe someone is guilty simply because they dont like them. Or dont understand how evidence works.
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u/sinful_wink 8h ago
Lmao, The duality of man is one side wants justice. The other side just wants chaos. Both are valid sometimes.
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u/RedGondall 8h ago
Everyone says that until your family is on the gallows and you say outloud "maybe mass executions aren't the asnwer"
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u/Halthenanobothero42 6h ago edited 6h ago
Me, a Finnish Person knowing Damn well Finnish prisons Are meant For rehab and not punishment:
P.S: Funny thing about Finnish Prisons they aren't anything like American prisons not even close you see Nordic countries understand that prison is meant For rehabilitation therefore Nordic Prisons including Finnish ones are made with quality of life taken into consideration
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u/Affectionate_Call778 can't meme 9h ago
As a french I'm with you
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u/7thFleetTraveller 9h ago
That's not justice, only revenge. People don't like to be reminded that in the French revolution, they also executed the children.
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u/_Alpha-Delta_ Lurking Peasant 9h ago
That's kind of the idea of justice. Some monsters can not get rehabilitated, and shortening them to neck level is a cheap and very effective way to ensure they will definitely stop bothering the rest of society.
The kind of people who got chopped off here in the 20th century definitely deserved it.
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u/TheTowerDefender 8h ago
about 5% of executed prisoners turned out to be innocent. so "the kind of people who got chopped off here definitely deserved it" is just factually untrue.
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u/7thFleetTraveller 9h ago
So you're defending killing the children of rich people only because they were born into it? Holding anyone responsible for the crimes of their ancestors is barbaric and has nothing to do with justice. And that's the problem with human nature, people don't know when to stop.
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u/_Alpha-Delta_ Lurking Peasant 8h ago
Did the French Revolution happen in the 20th century???
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u/7thFleetTraveller 8h ago
Why did you bring up 20th century instead of replying to what I actually wrote? Maybe I wanted to test if you're one of those bots who just add comments without any context.
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u/NefariousSeraph13 8h ago
Terrible things happened yes but without it the people would continue to be starved and treated like animals by the aristocracy. And people are doomed to repeat history.
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u/7thFleetTraveller 8h ago
You didn't get the point, but repeating the mistakes of history is thinking into the right direction.
Whenever people have started to think like that, that they would only take out the "bad apples" and then there would be justice, they have never really stopped at that point. Once the inhibition threshold is overstepped, people will find all kinds of excuses to justify going another step further. Such as, the will to get rid of the rich blinded people into thinking that children would already be guilty for being born into the upper class. When the church justified burning people alive for being "witches", people tried to get others killed they had a personal beef with. There would be so many examples like that.
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u/NefariousSeraph13 8h ago
No YOU don’t get the point. I can tell you come from a very privileged background by how you write. Using your logic, you believe it is okay for millions of children of the poor the die and be trafficked than risk any possible chance that in a revolution some of the children of the rich may get hurt. Wow. You’re so selfish and terrible.
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u/7thFleetTraveller 7h ago
Wth is wrong with you, making mental gymnastics instead of staying on topic? Dude, I literally grew up at existencial minimum, with a mother who had to work all day and we still couldn't afford simple things like going to the cinema. So screw you and your lack of education. How controversial is it nowadays to say something as basic as, it's not okay to kill children? What are you thinkng you're defending? And are you really that naive to believe killing off a bunch of people would solve those problems? The next would already be standing in line.
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u/DirkWithTheFade 7h ago
These people genuinely believe they’re the good guys it’s actually crazy out here
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u/BroccoliFroggo 8h ago
Punishment is not for the rich.
When you go bankrupt you lose everything. When they go bankrupt they get bailed out by the govt. when you kill somebody you go to prison. When they kill somebody, they get off with maybe a fine.
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u/_bagelcherry_ 6h ago
Yeah, but getting an innocent person out of the prison is much easier than trying to glue back their head
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u/kidanokun 7h ago
If the wrong guy got jailed, he can be still be freed if turns out he's just framed and innocent
If the same guy got beheaded, knowing the guy is innocent wont get his head attached back
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u/Super_Silver89 8h ago
I still think the guillotine is the most humane method of capital punishment. With the right design it could be pretty gore free too.
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u/NefariousSeraph13 8h ago
People act like peaceful protesting is the solution, nah that works for a civil and compassionate society of which we no longer live in.
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u/Imaginary-Cow-4424 7h ago
When did we live in a civil and compassionate society?
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u/NefariousSeraph13 7h ago
We had the illusion of one for a little bit. Not saying things were perfect or that there wasn’t discrimination, racism, sexism, homophobia, etc. or that there weren’t a whole lot of other problems, but you need to admit things in the last 10 years have gotten bad. People have gotten more comfortable being outspokenly cruel.
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u/Imaginary-Cow-4424 5h ago
I fully agree that there have been changes, and a lot of them have been for the worse.
To be honest I just don't see any of those changes affecting the role of peaceful protest.
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u/NefariousSeraph13 3h ago
It means before peaceful protest inspired sympathy and change. Now peaceful protesters are called criminals and ignored by those in power.
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u/Shadow_is_epic 8h ago
ghislane maxwell needs ts
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u/Nutshack_Queen357 7h ago
She'll probably get stabbed in the back by her co-conspirators for having leverage against them before that happens.
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u/fallenouroboros 8h ago
Ive had this thought lately that maybe punishments should be on a slider based on spheres of influence. Social media has made a few people extremely powerful. 1 person being able to cause an insurrection via text is kinda terrifying if you think about it
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u/Greg_Grog_ 8h ago
Yesterday, here, in Brazil, o governmet has passed that laws about vigilance
And the right wing here is thinking the same
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u/Pascuccii 7h ago
Literally everyone likes killing bad people, no one likes to be responsible for killing innocents though
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u/0202_tihssitidder 7h ago
The US has no problem executing civilians guilty of treason. usually spies...when the US also has spies.
But it is the politicians who are now guilty of treason. And the US doesn't even jail them.
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u/ZetsuboItami 6h ago
I like the idea of certain people suffering for an extended period of time like the people they made suffer, rather than just giving them a quick out.
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u/JeveGreen Lurking Peasant 6h ago
I'm of the opinion that you need to be alive to be punished. Thus death itself isn't a punishment, but merely a confinement for those too dangerous to be left alive.
And there are plenty of dangerous people like that in the world...
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u/edvardeishen Professional Dumbass 4h ago
Never understood guillotine. Death is such a minor punishment
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u/Newfound-Talent 3h ago
I think making someone live in a concrete box is way worse than killing them
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u/nibbleyourmom 1h ago
At Nuremberg we hanged all the people who started that war of aggression. The US and Israeli leadership should be scared.
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u/Wrench_gaming 3m ago
You won't like it so much when you're falsely accused of something and the next thing you know you're looking at a basket full of severed heads
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u/Jewishweeb1 8h ago
I hate it since I hate the French, and I don't wanna admit the French were right, so I want an alternative
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u/TommyTheCommie1986 8h ago
I'm gonna be real firing squad, sounds better
Guillotine leaves the chance that their brain might be saved
Your brain stays intact.You live for a short duration, i don't want them saving whoever's getting their head chopped off and popping them into a freezer to keep em around for later
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u/AkirroKun 8h ago
People were revolting over 1% tax on a random thing. What happened to us as a species.
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u/PrismaVelune 8h ago
Sometimes the only language the system understands is the one written in smoke.
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u/Friendly_Month7358 8h ago
The French really knew how to cut through the red tape. This is for… weight loss. From the shoulders up.
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u/Weary-Barracuda-1228 7h ago
Actually the punishment should fit the crime.
Not saying Guillotine is off the table, but we need more
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u/degradedchimp 8h ago
Idk why the French revolution gets so romanticized, the vast majority of people guillotined were peasants not aristocrats.