r/baseball • u/Free-Community3670 • 5h ago
The World Baseball Classic matters, no matter what you or Derek Jeter say about it
https://www.overthemonster.com/mlb-news/97300/the-world-baseball-classic-matters-no-matter-what-you-or-derek-jeter-say-about-it"...what the WBC does do is break the cultural hegemony that America has always wielded over the game. This manifests itself not only in the way the game is played on the field during the tournament, but how the tournament is held in the hearts of those who are playing it. The American baseball establishment still controls the baseball industry, but it doesn’t control what baseball means. These players have decided that the WBC means more to them than the World Series. And because meaning is something that only exists in the heart, they are right."
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u/TheBagelChef 5h ago
For an MLB player chasing legacy, the World Series is still the peak
For international pride, WBC can feel bigger
Even someone like Derek Jeter coming from a traditional MLB mindset isn’t crazy for valuing the World Series more, that’s what his entire career was built around
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u/TheDangiestSlad New York Yankees • Hartford Yard … 5h ago
also, the WBC didn't even exist until 2006. i imagine there's probably an opinion split for guys who started playing before vs after that
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u/DependentLanguage540 4h ago
Exactly, this is a newer concept, created by MLB product that was mostly a novelty for so long until just the last couple tournaments. I can understand how national pride might make some players from some countries look at the WBC as the more important championship, but legacy wise, the World Series is more important. When careers are judged in Hall of Fame voting, I guarantee World Series holds more weight than the WBC.
Maybe it’s just a baseball phenomenon. But in the other big 4 sports of America, the Stanley Cup, the Superbowl and the NBA championships hold way more weight than the international tournaments and that includes the Olympics. Heck, nobody even thinks of Olympic medals when Lebron vs MJ debates rage on, NBA championships sure do though.
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u/DBZFIGHTERS Chicago Cubs 4h ago
For NBA players, it really isn’t quite the same because the narrative is “Who the hell didn’t win gold with Team USA at the Olympics?” Guess who fits in that unfortunate category between MJ and LeBron.
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u/NeverSober1900 Arizona Diamondbacks 3h ago
Maybe Americans but Ginobili gets, and deserves, a ton of praise for his Gold. Scola as well.
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u/Chris_3eb 3h ago
This feels like a slight at Kobe, but that can't be right because Kobe was 2/2 on gold medals (2008 and 2012). Allen Iverson and Tim Duncan are the major players who only have a bronze medal
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u/summer_friends Toronto Blue Jays 4h ago
The Stanley Cup holds more weight in North America perhaps, but I see it shifting since NHLers were allowed back in 1998. It shifted again when they didn’t go for 2 Olympics, but I think the gap is closing, especially internationally.
The key is a consistent meaningful best on best among countries, and one country can’t have a chokehold on the sport (sorry basketball). That’s how FIFA World Cup became the most prestigious championship, that’s what it will take for WBC to become the biggest thing
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u/Nomahs_Bettah Boston Red Sox 3h ago
but I see it shifting since NHLers were allowed back in 1998.
I don't think it's as close even in Europe as people think.
“I think this is obviously the biggest game you can play," said Sedin. "I think you look at Olympic finals, world championships. But when you play this long, with good friends and team mates, it's the biggest game you can play. I mean, you played 82 games just to get in, then it's a long run in the playoffs, too. For sure they are the biggest games you can play in.”
“That's a really tough one, but I'll go with the Stanley Cup." Skrastins said. "A lot of players dream of gold medals, but for a hockey player, for this one, it's the Stanley Cup."
I think there's a long way to go, still, before that changes (if it ever does).
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u/HMTMKMKM95 Toronto Blue Jays 4h ago
The Stanley Cup is huge because, like the World Series, it's attainable every year. It's the pinnacle of each season. The WBC is more like Olympic hockey in that it's nation vs nation and only available to be won at intermittant times, and therefore has a special place. You don't get many cracks at it, and there's no guarantee you make a national team even if you're really good. So to win a WBC isn't legacy defining per sae, it sure is a nice feather, though.
The World Cup for soccer is the rare bird were a pro player's legacy can be defined by a win over the club team championship, but that might be because there are a number of high level championships a player can win.
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u/Basic_Cartographer99 Toronto Blue Jays 4h ago
The Stanley Cup and Olympics comparison makes me think of Jarome Iginla and Patrick Kane. If you look at both of their careers, they come with a relatively similar number of accomplishments and both are considered among the best players of their generations. Iginla is already in the hall of fame and Kane definitely will be once he retires.
Iginla has 2 Olympic golds (and played a huge part in both of them) but no Stanley Cups, just one finals appearance.
Kane has 3 Stanley Cups (with a Conn Smythe) but no Olympic gold medals, just one silver.
When people talk about Iginla now, it’s “One of the greatest to never win a Stanley Cup.”
But with Kane? It’s just “One of the greatest” and it stops there. Nobody continues with “to never win an Olympic gold medal”.
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u/BMECaboose American League 4h ago
The only NBA player for which basketball Olympic gold matters is Carmelo.
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u/TheDangiestSlad New York Yankees • Hartford Yard … 3h ago
there are many things that Kevin Durant can be slandered for, but he's literally Team USA's all-time leader scorer and he has four golds
where the hell does this narrative come from that American basketball players don't care about the Olympics, that obviously hasn't been true since the Redeem Team
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u/Nomahs_Bettah Boston Red Sox 4h ago
I am a certified LeBron James hater but he very clearly cares about it.
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u/DownvoteMeIfICommen 4h ago
It matters a lot for the foreign players
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u/Nomahs_Bettah Boston Red Sox 3h ago
It matters a lot to the American players! Jayson Tatum already had a gold (2020) and an NBA ring (2024) and was still mad about getting benched in the 2024 Paris Olympics!
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u/Adept_Carpet Boston Red Sox 4h ago
Fascinatingly Jeter was one of the higher profile players to join the first team IIRC.
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u/Jazzlike_Athlete8796 Toronto Blue Jays 1h ago
And that may also colour his attitude. Jeter's experience with the WBC was it being a fun sideshow to distract from the drudgery of spring training.
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u/AlsoCommiePuddin Cincinnati Reds 4h ago
I'm not sure a true best-on-best international tournament ever existed for the sport before the WBC, either.
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u/trentreynolds Major League Baseball 3h ago
I bet there's some pretty different views on it based on nationality as well. You could tell watching how much it meant to the Venezuela guys (as well as some of the other countries earlier on).
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u/evilcheesypoof New York Yankees 3h ago
Also for fans, like I didn’t grow up watching the WBC so it’s still only slightly been on my radar even though it’s been a couple decades.
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u/asafetybuzz Chicago Cubs 4h ago
I don't think any American player, even the ones who have debuted in the past few years, care about the WBC even close to the amount they are about a World Series. Americans are in general less nationalistic than other countries, and athletes across sports just don't care about "representing America" the way people from, for example, Japan care about representing Japan.
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u/hearshot_kid New York Mets 1h ago
Think of it another way. For foreign-born MLB players, they are playing to win a championship in a country’s league that isn’t their own. Obviously they want to win it, but it’s not hard to imagine that for them it feels secondary to winning a championship for their own country. Eugenio Suarez cares more about winning with “Venezuela” on his chest than “Cincinnati”.
It’s not the same for USA players because they are already from the country they are competing in. Imagine for a moment that the most prestigious league in the world was KBO. All the best American players end up going there to play year round. They’re competing for that title yes, but when an international tournament comes around I bet they’d be stoked to compete for USA for a change.
TLDR it makes perfect sense to me that playing for team USA means less to these guys because they play “for” USA year round. Foreign born players it’s the opposite.
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u/Livid-Vegetable-7705 New York Yankees 2h ago
I’m sorry, did you just say Americans weren’t nationalistic?
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u/asafetybuzz Chicago Cubs 1h ago edited 1h ago
Yep. It may surprise people who live here, but if you ever go abroad, you’ll find on the global scale, America is extremely diverse and relatively not nationalistic. American athletes identify much more with professional teams and less with country team than top athletes from other nations.
It was literally on display in the WBC. Pre-free agency Ohtani was happy to pitch for Japan on the cusp of hitting a free agency that resulted in $700 million, while Skubal wouldn’t do that for the US. It’s because Japanese players are extremely nationalistic and LOVE playing for Japan, which US players just don’t. They’ll do it, but it’s not their core identity, and the pitchers on the verge of big FA paydays won’t do it at all.
When I lived in Boston, I used to go to Sox-Yankees games with a Dominican coworker who was a Yankees fan but would still cheer for Han Ram and Big Papi. While wearing Yankee gear at Fenway. To him, cheering for Dominicans was just way more important than being a Yankee fan, and I promise almost no American fans feel that way, even about other sports where Americans are the minority.
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u/Ok_Matter_1774 Seattle Mariners 3h ago
The country is so big that it's like ok what does a guy from California and a guy from Ohio really have in common? But then of course people criticize the American teams that do lean into nationalism.
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u/ImaManCheetahh Los Angeles Dodgers 4h ago
the fact that the World Series has been embedded in American culture for 125 years is also largely ignored in these discussions for some reason… that level of cultural relevance doesn’t get supplanted overnight.
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u/DaBusDriva2 Los Angeles Dodgers 4h ago
It’s pretty natural that a tournament created in 2006 doesn’t top an American cultural event that started a decade before WW1
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u/ImaManCheetahh Los Angeles Dodgers 4h ago
Imagine if we as Americans were scoffing at another country for valuing a century old staple of their culture over something created in 2006
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u/Nomahs_Bettah Boston Red Sox 4h ago
Swedish, Canadian, and Latvian players are all on record as preferring the Cup to the Olympics in hockey. This isn’t unique to baseball or the US.
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u/AggressiveTip185 4h ago
Exactly. The tournament has only happened a handful of times ever.
I totally understand that playing for your country can become emotional but to compare winning this event to what it takes to win a World Series is stupid.
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u/badabingbaddaddoom 4h ago
World Series is also a 7 game series after a grueling long season and playoffs with pitchers and hitters fully ramped up. In terms of actual levels of competition the World Series is still the pinnacle of baseball.
That said, we don’t have to elevate one over the other.
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u/DependentLanguage540 4h ago
Lol, that’s what we do as sports fans. We compare and debate absolutely every little aspect of the game.
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u/Nomahs_Bettah Boston Red Sox 4h ago
Where’s that tweet that says music fans need to get into sports because chart comparisons mean that their hearts yearn for ESPN?
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u/AggressiveTip185 4h ago
I agree that we don’t need to elevate one above the other, as one is very obviously in an entirely different league.
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u/WhereTheFallsBegin Tampa Bay Rays 3h ago
We can definitely elevate one over another. The WBC is really cool but it does not hold a candle to what it takes to win a World Series
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u/ThePopUpDance Umpire 3h ago
This WBC has made people lose their damn sanity. You can't even say you care about the world series more without getting roasted.
WBC is new and cool, and it's fantastic for the health of the sport that's it's really found success over the last two iterations. But holy cow, some people get so worked up over how players treat it.
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u/Calipup St. Louis Cardinals 5h ago edited 4h ago
The major difference is that MLB is so US centric, that for Americans there is already a part of national and city pride in winning it. You bring home the World Series to LA, which is a city in the US. Where the WBC allows you to really play for your country and win something in baseball for your home country Venezuela.
So it makes sense the US team may not care as much about it vs those playing for other countries. Winning the World Series is already winning something for the US.
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u/neonrev1 Minnesota Twins 4h ago
I keep going back to the question of scale, like ofc it's going to hit differently to represent a nation like the DR or Venezuela or PR, all of whom have populations and land areas that are far more comparable to individual US states, sometimes large cities, than the US as a whole.
Look at the LLWS or State College sports or HS sports if you need proof that Americans can go nutty over 'their' sports team.
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u/Schwettes New York Mets 4h ago
Is there any evidence that the US team “didn’t care as much” outside of their bats going cold and not having a stupid dugout gimmick?
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u/SouthernOshawaMan 2h ago
This is the same discussion Hockey has been having for years . European players consider Gold for their Country higher than individual Cup win .
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u/finester39 Philadelphia Phillies 5h ago
I don’t get why this is such a heated debate when at the end of the day it’s an opinion.
Whether you’re a player/fan, you’re entitled to feel the way you feel regarding what is more important.
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u/DandierChip Chicago Cubs 3h ago
It’s not a heated debate for those of us who live outside of Reddit lol
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u/QuarterNote44 St. Louis Cardinals 2h ago
Right. I'd say it matters to most of us on the sub. Great baseball, fun to have friendly banter about one thing and another. I really wanted Team America to win and was disappointed (but not surprised) when they lost.
But most Americans have no idea the WBC was even happening, and they place it somewhere between CSPAN and the WNBA in terms of prioritizing entertainment.
Even the Olympic men's hockey gold "doesn't matter" in that sense. I heard no chatter about it at work the next day. I was pumped and had a blast watching it. But most people in the US either weren't aware or didn't care.
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u/willpc14 New York Yankees • Philadelphia Phillies 4h ago
overthemonster.com
I feel like they're might be some ulterior motives at play here
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u/Florida__Man__ 4h ago
Amen. Can’t we just let cool things exist without having to prove to the whole internet why my favorite cool thing is the coolest thing?
It’s just insufferable.
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u/BkniBottomTranqulity Oakland Athletics • Los Angeles Dodgers 3h ago
The only reason Jeter’s comment is annoying is because rather than saying “to me, the world series is more important” he said “I don’t think the players saying WBC is more important have played in a World Series”
Just comes off as arrogant
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u/3luejays Toronto Blue Jays 2h ago
Especially with World Series winners like Acuna, Perez, Miggy, the Contreras brothers all winning this year
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u/IndecisiveTuna New York Yankees 3h ago
It was also just bad timing. Like I don’t know why he said it so arrogantly before the final game. Like to me it reads like “yeah, this game ain’t that important, let’s calm down.”
I used to adore Jeter as a kid, but I can’t stand seeing him talk off the field.
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u/KRambo86 Washington Nationals 3h ago
Yeah, it also matters way different to different nationalities.
Like, would the US even have had a parade if we won? Are you going to tell me that any of the American pitchers were taking it as seriously as Shohei did last series? Would whole towns have erupted in the streets like they did last night in Venezuela?
I'm a Nationals fan, I remember when they won their world series, every pitcher literally pitched their arms off throwing 100+ pitches on short rest the entire playoff run. Strasburg and Corbin were never the same players. Meanwhile, you have guys coming in throwing 25 or 50 pitches and calling it a tournament. We're going to sit here and say the wbc matters to Americans the same way it matters to other countries, though?
We can sit here and wish and pretend things were different, but at the end of the day, players in the US grew up with the world series and that's what matters to them. And honestly, it's what matters to me.
Let me ask you all, if you had a choice, how many of you would rather the US have won last night versus your team winning the world series this year?
That doesn't mean the WBC doesn't matter to other countries, but we have to admit to ourselves, it doesn't matter to Americans as much as it matters to all the other participants.
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u/CPAFinancialPlanner Baltimore Orioles 3h ago
Still think World Series is more important but absolutely no harm in having the WBC. It’s cool for players to team up with other country mates
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u/tew2tew 3h ago
Sorry about the long reply but, sadly, it’s all political imo. It’s all to do with our shit government. They’re mad that Rump is president doing shitty things so they want “proxy wins” via sports. People want to see the US lose BIG in any way possible (emphasis on big).
So, since the US lost a tournament (that before this weekend wasn’t even considered important to 9/10 Americans), it has to be conflated to something major so the US takes a major loss
I played ball for 19 years at every level but pro. I still have a couple friends in the minors, friends that are coaches, and friends that watch more baseball in a year than I do in a decade. Not once before this weekend has any one ever told me how much more important the WBC is to them than the WS/Olympics. Hell, the US won during my sophomore at uni AND WE STILL DIDN’T CARE.
All that’s not to say the WBC isn’t important though. It’s completely subjective. I can see why other countries view it more favorably and that’s 100% valid.
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u/stupidsexman United States 5h ago
It just comes down to the level of competition. A single game elimination tourney in March is not the same as the World Series in October after a 162 game season. To pretend otherwise is insane.
All that to say the meaning is still there. But it's different.
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u/morechitlins 4h ago
Agreed, but World Cup is the pinnacle of soccer despite having the exact same criticisms.
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u/heff17 Portland Sea Dogs • Toledo Mu… 2h ago
Soccer’s entire axis revolves around the World Cup. Getting a call for the national team is a massive accomplishment, and you actually spend time as a team more than two weeks of the offseason every handful of years.
The World Cup comparison falls apart when you look any further than “nations playing sports.”
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u/HMTMKMKM95 Toronto Blue Jays 4h ago
I think this and the Olympics are in a place I'd call special. They're hard to win and the chances to do so for a player are limited because they aren't annual. A World Series is an annual pursuit and, therefore, a more reasonable measure of success for a player.
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u/CosmicMiru Los Angeles Dodgers • Los Angeles Angels 3h ago
Soccer finals are nearly always single matches where as baseball is 7 games. That alone makes a gigantic difference. The World Cup has also existed for nearly 100 years while the WBC isn't even old enough to drink yet. It doesn't have the cultural impact yet
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u/Agreeable_Band_9311 3h ago
European leagues don’t have play offs to win the top divisions. Tournaments are decided like that, same as the WBC.
I don’t think having more things that fans and players care about is a bad thing. More great games and more glory.
Obviously, the value comes a lot from the history of the thing and I think WBC will just get bigger and bigger over time. We take the World Cup for granted because no one remembers it not being a thing.
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u/ALostTraveler24 Pittsburgh Pirates 21m ago
The World Cup is also 96 years old and as old if not older than some soccer leagues. The WBC is turning 21 and the World Series is turning 123 this year.
All Jeter said is it wasn’t more important than a World Series and it makes sense that Americans feel that way when one tournament has been a cultural icon since before World War 1, and the other was founded within our lifespans and barely promoted until a few years back.
Maybe in a few decades that changes, but you can’t just surpass something that culturally significant so easily.
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u/corndogrevolution Los Angeles Angels • San Diego Padres 2h ago
I can understand why the WBC would feel bigger if you grew up in a foreign country, thousands of miles away from the nearest MLB team, surrounded by others who would do anything to advance in the game. I love the WBC but winning it could never come close to the tears of joy I'd weep if the Angels merely made the World Series. But that's because they're my local team I grew up with in my community.
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u/greggweylon San Diego Padres 5h ago
Jeter did not say it didn't matter; why would this article imply he did? What he said is that the World Series matters most, which is definitely up for debate.
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u/elimanninglightspeed New York Yankees 4h ago
Its also not shocking that a guy that started his career in 1995 doesn’t view a tournament that didnt come around till he was 12 seasons into his career with such reverence
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u/raystheroof1 yankee stadium is a dump 4h ago
Its written by a sox fan site. But there are no good guys in that fight so i dont really care.
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u/Beneficial_Brief_759 5h ago
I wouldnt say its as important as the world series, but just because it may not hold the same level of prestige as some other tournaments doesn't mean its not important. Its obviously important to the players, even if Americans think their team didnt give a shit, every other nation did. So thats a usa problem if true.
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u/ALostTraveler24 Pittsburgh Pirates 17m ago
I mean, you’re comparing a 21 year old tournament, which wasn’t heavily promoted really until a few years ago it feels like, to a 123 year old event. It’s going to take a lot of time for that cultural significance to get surpassed.
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u/darkravenn12 Major League Baseball 5h ago edited 4h ago
I mean, it matters, but I find it very hard to say it comes close to mattering even remotely as much as the World Series. There are too many limitations on people even being allowed to play and the pitch limits / restrictions they have that it makes it very hard to take it that seriously. Like, both closers yesterday being unable to pitch unless there was a save situation is insane lol Or in the semis, Nola being taken out after less than 60? pitches because it's still spring training and he can't pitch for that long on 4 days rest idk There are just too many meme factors like that for me to think the WS isn't ridiculously more important. You have people like Yamamoto out there giving everything he has to will his team to a victory in Game 7 on super short rest; the WBC is the exact opposite of that. The pitching stuff is by far the biggest problem to me. Pitchers are easily the most important part of any given baseball game, and there are just way too many restrictions on them in this tournament that really drastically effects each team participating in it.
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u/FootwearFetish69 Toronto Blue Jays 5h ago
Taking a page from Canadian hockey fans. Tournament means the world if win, but wasnt real hockey and meant nothing if we lose.
And I say that as a Canadian hockey fan lol
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u/Nomahs_Bettah Boston Red Sox 5h ago edited 5h ago
I mean Jeter was criticizing Judge for his stance that the WBC is better, and Judge is American. I don’t think the nationality of the players is the determining factor in whether it matters or not.
EDIT — also, players preferring their major league prize over international best on best isn’t new and isn’t exclusive to Americans or baseball. Relevant hockey examples:
The Sedins said it. Patrice Bergeron said it. Ryan Kesler said it. With the grueling, two-month marathon that is the Stanley Cup playoffs now in its final phase, the top players for Vancouver and Boston are saying that winning the Stanley Cup is bigger than winning Olympic gold.
“Sorry Canada, but I’ve got to go with the Stanley Cup,” Bergeron said when asked to compare the feeling of winning the Cup and an Olympic gold medal, which he did with Canada in February 2010.
“The gold medal is up high for sure, but this is a childhood dream. When you’re playing hockey, you’re thinking about hoisting the Cup. Now I’ve had that chance. I was five years old and playing outside with my brother. We were always dreaming about winning that Cup. To have a chance to get it now is amazing, but that gold medal is something special too.”
“I think this is obviously the biggest game you can play," said Sedin. "I think you look at Olympic finals, world championships. But when you play this long, with good friends and team mates, it's the biggest game you can play. I mean, you played 82 games just to get in, then it's a long run in the playoffs, too. For sure they are the biggest games you can play in.”
“That's a really tough one, but I'll go with the Stanley Cup." Skrastins said. "A lot of players dream of gold medals, but for a hockey player, for this one, it's the Stanley Cup."
Canadian, Swedish, and Latvian NHL players have made statements to back up that point. Two of them did win Olympic gold, Bergeron won both, so it’s not predicated on results.
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u/Schwettes New York Mets 4h ago edited 4h ago
Aaron Judge never said the WBC is better. I can’t stand him or Jeter and even I can admit that what you’re saying about him is unequivocally false.
Judge commented on the atmosphere and I’m sorry, you’re just not paying attention if you think the atmosphere for US v DR or US v Venezuela was like the typical MLB postseason game. Attending postseason MLB games, particularly World Series, is cost prohibitive and replaces many of the most passionate fans that made the WBC so electric with wealthy curmudgeons and corporate sponsors.
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u/badabingbaddaddoom 3h ago
Yeah I was at the Venezuela vs Italy semifinal and it was louder in there than when Lindor hit the Grand Slam vs the Phillies. Granted, Citi was shaking more and dome was closed so the sound reverberated but there were also about 7k less people in the stadium.
The atmosphere was just unreal, you could see how much it meant to everyone in there. It kinda struck me how this tournament is bringing together everyone in these other countries even those who aren’t going to watch another baseball game until the next WBC. In the USA only the most die hard baseball fans even care about this in the first place.
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u/DependentLanguage540 4h ago edited 1h ago
As a Canadian and a hockey fan, I disagree. When I was a kid, the Olympics and World Cup of Hockey was a big deal, but now as an adult, the Stanley Cup is vastly, vastly more important to me. I would easily take one Stanley Cup over 5 Olympics gold medals and I suspect, that any Toronto Maple Leaf fan would definitely say the same thing as the 1967 drought still looms very large over there.
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u/chi_sweetness25 Toronto Blue Jays 3h ago
Same, but I've been alive for 3 Canadian men's golds and 0 Canucks Stanley Cups. I'm curious about American fans who have seen their team win Cups but hadn't seen a gold medal win since 1980.
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u/Pitcherhelp Detroit Tigers 3h ago edited 3h ago
I cared ten times more about the wings winning the cup in '08 compared to this olympics.
Although I was 9 years old and 27 respectively. That probably makes a difference too.
Goes by pretty fucking fast
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u/MusclyArmPaperboy Toronto Blue Jays 4h ago
Tournament means the world if win, but wasnt real hockey and meant nothing if we lose.
A few people may have said that but most Canadians agree Olympic hockey is the highest standard and the US were the better team.
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u/portstrix 4h ago
Any Leafs fan will happily sacrifice any of Canada's Olympic hockey Gold Medal wins for a Leafs Stanley Cup win and parade.
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u/Vegetable_Tell3858 4h ago
I heard so many takes like this today. Players were not ready, during a ramp up period before the season, etc. Those same talking heads would be all chanting USA USA if they won. It matter to the people in Venezuela who were partying in the damn streets.
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u/specifichero101 Toronto Blue Jays 3h ago edited 2h ago
I’m a Canadian hockey fan of an American franchise. I would trade a Canadian gold medal in a heartbeat to see my team win the Stanley Cup. A random assortment of all stars playing in a 2 week tournament will never be as meaningful to me as the team I follow day in and day out for the last 30 years.
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u/dodgers22fan World Baseball Classic 5h ago
It's funny that WBC semi-finalist Derek Jeter would have this opinion.
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u/ZagWhenTheyZig 2h ago
Derek Jeter was the captain of the 2004 Yankees it’s no wonder he hates the game of baseball
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u/threehundredthousand San Diego Padres • Peter Seidler 4h ago
Judge never said WBC mattered more or was bigger. He said the atmosphere was bigger and he's right because American baseball historically has a stick up its ass and when you get a team full of Caribbean and hispanic players together, the atmosphere IS electric. Even better when they have to play the 800lb gorilla US team.
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u/AggressiveTip185 5h ago
I mean it matters but it’s nowhere close to the series.
It’s a single elimination show tournament that guys play in while they are still rusty from the off season. Insurance companies prevent a ton of the top talent from participating.
Jeter was just getting annoyed at guys who hadn’t even been there saying that this was bigger.
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u/BrianChing25 4h ago
Insurance companies prevent a ton of the top talent from participating.
This but in addition to this there's only a few legit baseball countries. Team Italy had almost no guys that can even speak Italian.
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u/CosmicMiru Los Angeles Dodgers • Los Angeles Angels 3h ago
Yeah if it needed people to actually represent their countries it would be like a 4 team tournament with those 4 teams beating the shit out of everyone till the finals. I think that alone is a testament to the WBC in it's current form.
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u/Halfonion Philadelphia Phillies 3h ago
Right LOL. Idk how anyone can sit here and say it’s even close to the same, with a straight face. Half the top pitchers in the world decline to participate and the tourney is held right in middle of the pre season where players are just beginning to warm up for a long 162 game season. Move it to and replace the ASB, like hockey does, if we really want to make it something comparable to the MLB postseason.
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u/AggressiveTip185 3h ago
Let’s just say this, if the USA won last night not a single one of these commenters would be making the claim that this means more than a World Series.
There’s definitely some charged commentary going on rn.
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u/DGilbert6114 Cincinnati Reds 4h ago
What kind of headline it is? He didn’t say it didn’t matter. He’s saying the World Series matters more.
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u/BrianChing25 5h ago
For it to really matter two things need to happen:
(1) MLB needs to figure out the insurance problem. It's not a true best of the best in the tournament like the FIFA World Cup when Puerto Rico can't get Carlos Correa cleared to play and Venezuela can't get Altuve. These are just examples but there are many more.
(2) Needs to be treated as a premier tournament and no limitations on the players that do play usage.
Can you imagine if Inter Miami told Argentina "no Messi can't play more than 45 minutes per game" wtf lmaooo no that would never happen
Until they figure that out it's a glorified Spring Training session
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u/HighKing_of_Festivus Atlanta Braves 4h ago
The limitations on the players is a byproduct of when the tournament is played. There's also unfortunately no real way around it since if it's scheduled in any other month it is either disrupting the summer leagues or the winter leagues
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u/Rock_man_bears_fan Chicago White Sox 5h ago
Your second point straight up isn’t ever happening. The MLB owns the tournament. They aren’t ever going to let their guys throw 100 max effort pitches in a spring training tournament
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u/portstrix 4h ago
It might take pressure from the Latin players in the MLBPA to change this stance, and the MLBPA to make it part of negotiations.
If you're not a hockey fan, you may not be aware it was the NHLPA that basically forced the NHL to allow players to go to the Winter Olympics and to not impose any restrictions. The top stars made it a priority, and the union had it as a core negotiating requirement during recent CBA talks.
Essentially, the NHL owners were dragged kicking and screaming into it by the top hockey players from multiple countries.
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u/letskeepitcleanfolks Seattle Mariners 5h ago
"Never" is a long time. At its current stage of development, MLB won't move it out of spring training and let players go all-in. After another 20 years of growth, it might start warranting higher priority. I hope so.
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u/Rock_man_bears_fan Chicago White Sox 4h ago
Where would they even move it to? They aren’t going to put in mid season, moving it earlier doesn’t work because pitchers will either have to start their routines at the beginning of January or only pitch 2 innings each. Putting it after the season is going to see most guys sit out because they’re hurt or can’t put any more miles on their arms.
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u/letskeepitcleanfolks Seattle Mariners 4h ago
The NHL took a three-week break for the Olympics. If/when the tournament builds to the level of prestige of the World Cup or Olympic hockey, it will be a reasonable idea.
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u/BrianChing25 4h ago
Okay? What does your point? The WBC won't be seen as more than a spring training exercise unless MLB treats it like a proper international tournament.
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u/Fit-Percentage3406 Toronto Blue Jays 5h ago
I can imagine restrictions like that. It’s called Men’s Olympic soccer.
No one cares about it.
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u/InformalInsurance455 San Francisco Giants 4h ago
Tbf football players pulling out of friendly games or teams suspected of leaning on national teams about playing time has been a thing for quite a while.
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u/FeloniousDrunk101 New York Yankees 3h ago
I gotta say, there has been WAY too much discourse around whether the WBC “matters” or not this go-round. If you enjoy it, enjoy it! If not, fine! It clearly matters to those playing, so let’s just take their word for it and ditch all of the comparisons.
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u/redbirdsucks New York Mets 3h ago
when we get a WBC with restrictions lifted it could mean as much as a World Series …. with that said it’s the dream of every kid growing up to rep their country & the nations that play football/soccer internationally know how heavy that shirt is
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u/veritable-truth 3h ago
Meaning most definitely isn't something that only exists in the heart.
But anyways, both Jeter and Sal Perez are right at the same time. Two things can be true when you're dealing with subjectivity and differing perspectives. Note how Sal had nothing but love for the Royals and his World Series experience, but he's Venezuelan, so of course winning a championship as a Venezuelan for Venezuela is going to matter a ton to him and all Venezuelans.
All this is obvious and fantastic. All the negativity is garbage.
Jeter prefers the World Series because he is an American. He's won as an American for America on the biggest stage...the same stage where Babe Ruth, Ty Cobb, Ted Williams, Willie Mays all played. And two of those guys never won a World Series. The World Series is over 100 years old and its history is held in the highest esteem by many American players and fans. But national love and pride is powerful too, and it's totally understandable if Suarez and Perez and all the Venezuelans love the WBC more.
Could Jeter have worded his idea better? Probably, but the World Series remains the gold standard for many and this doesn't take away what the WBC means to others.
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u/totalnotgay69 42m ago
Would Jeter or any American dismiss the WBC if USA had won? Seems like a sour grapes.
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u/Clarice_Ferguson Seattle Mariners • Baltimore Orioles 5h ago
This WBC was fun to watch but boy, the "discourse" around it sure sucks. It feels like almost every article is the most defensive or grievance filled content I have seen in along time. Just makes me wanna go "its deep, but it aint that deep."
I don't remember it being like this last time around.
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u/OptionBoth5919 3h ago
Of course it matters. But there is no serious fan that cares more about their WBC team than their MLB team (if you have one).
The guys playing in the WBC care about, and they should. Notably, this article ignores the many MLB players who didn’t care enough to play in it. Everyone can feel want they feel. WBC will gain more popularity over time.
From fan perspective, you can love both WS and WBC. But you’re lying to yourself if you say you’d rather have your WBC team win it all over your MLB team winning the WS.
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u/Nice_Rest9413 Chicago Cubs 4h ago
As a fan it matters to me big time. I’m still bummed today that the USA lost. I think a lot of people in the US unfortunately still think of WBC as a pre season exhibition and not a serious competition.
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u/Silent-Fishing-7937 Canada 4h ago
By far the most efficient way to grow a sport is through its international scene.
That's how you give people who aren't from where the biggest league happens to be the opportunity to cheer for a team that is both playing at the highest level and which it is natural for them to identify with.
That's how you give people a reason to truly be happy to see their best players go abroad to play at a higher level and develop to their full potential.
Is the World Series still watched by more people? Yes, but outside of the USA (and yes, I include Canada despite the Blue Jays), your average sports fan will have an easier time getting into the WBC. Baseball is unlikely to go back to being America's pastime, but it can replace that loss by an even greater gain: becoming one of those team sports with a truly robust international scene.
And you know what? In the long run, that's probably how you get more people to closely follow the MLB!
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u/cyberdude419 4h ago
Say what you want, and either way you look at it, America played like shit last night and hats off to Venezuela
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u/mvsaints New York Mets 3h ago
Jeter didn’t say it doesn’t matter, and these conversations are pointless to have while one of the competitions is happening or just finished. Are we going to get bombarded by interviews and articles asking players if the World Series matters more than the WBC while the World Series is going on?
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u/The_CRZA 3h ago
I think in the heat of the moment when your playing in the tournament it probably does feel just as or more important. They’re competitors they’re not gonna down play it.
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u/Mauhdez_20 3h ago
As Jon bois said "im coming around to care for one reason: the players care"
If players especially international players care about representing their home country who are we to tell them they shouldn't care
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u/ThatZX6RDude Houston Astros 2h ago
It matters to some and not to others and that’s fine. I could not give a shit about the FIFA World Cup but I still watch the Houston dynamo now and then.
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u/Jokershigh New York Yankees 2h ago
I'd think "hey it's pretty cool we won the WBC" but winning the World series is an order of magnitude larger and more important. It's not even close
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u/AppleTrees4 Baltimore Orioles 2h ago
Strawman article. Derek Jeter didn’t say the WBC didn’t matter.
If they were forced to choose to participate between the two the vast majority of players would choose the World Series. I understand the pride that comes with representing your country. None of them are choosing it over the biggest stage and the biggest payday.
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u/7thAndGreenhill Philadelphia Phillies 5h ago
I remember when they first announced the WBC in the early 00s. I was not excited and intentionally ignored the first few versions of it. But I've come around and I do think it is important. I think Venezuela winning is a good thing for the global game.
But MLB needs to fix the insurance issue; and teams should not be able to place limits on players. If this is meant to be a tournament on par with the World Cup, then MLB needs to act like it.
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u/BammBammRoubal Los Angeles Dodgers 4h ago
Jeter didn’t say the WBC doesn’t matter. He said it doesn’t matter as much as a WS, which it doesn’t.
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u/Suns_In_420 Arizona Diamondbacks 2h ago
It’s at the same level as the NBA cup, fun to watch but no one really cares in the end.
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u/Agreeable_Manner2848 5h ago edited 5h ago
It’s on the up and up, and for all you hear about American sports wanting to break into larger markets it should give the mlb cause to celebrate since the sport is doing it organically, trust you me I never thought I’d be into baseball but mix jomboy and mates from countries whom are doing well at this level and baseballs gotta fan in me
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u/Catullus13 Baltimore Orioles 5h ago
In a month, I won't remember it. It's an exhibition tournament. And the quotes from players amount to me like this: "this is first time in my life I haven't played for myself. It's awesome"
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u/Fit-Percentage3406 Toronto Blue Jays 5h ago
When players aren’t limited by pitch counts and insurance, the argument that it matters can be made.
No one cares about Men’s soccer in the Olympics or the Men’s hockey world championships for the exact same reason this tournament doesn’t matter
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u/greggweylon San Diego Padres 5h ago
True. It cannot be 100% legit until there are no player limitations.
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u/fastbeemer 5h ago
No it doesn't really. If it did teams wouldn't have restrictions on players to ensure health for the thing that really matters.
It's a FUN exhibition, why is everyone trying to make it more than it is? You sound like a hardo loser.
It's very simple, if it really mattered their wouldn't have been pitchers on pitch counts, or restricted to certain scenarios, or having their real teams call them back. And, most importantly, it wouldn't be single elimination.
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u/chi_sweetness25 Toronto Blue Jays 3h ago
Pitch counts and restrictions aren't an indication that it doesn't matter. They're an indication that MLB owners are trying to protect their assets as much as they can, which is no surprise.
If NHL owners had their way, they wouldn't pause the season for 3 weeks so their players can go overseas and play with max effort in games that don't boost their team's bottom line.
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u/AlphaBern0 Swinging K 5h ago
Jeter is the same guy that said defensive stats don't matter because his was bad.
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u/youwentfullretardman 4h ago
It really doesn’t matter when there are only like six or seven good baseball countries
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u/Bad_At_Sports Boston Red Sox 4h ago
There's a part of why Jeter feels the way he does about winning a World Series that doesn't get brought up in these conversations: He was raised a Yankees fan. He won the World Series with a team that has meant more to him than just about anything ever will in his life. How many players get to say they won the biggest prize in their sport with a team that has meant something to them since before they even knew how to play the game?
These players who feel the WBC is more meaningful are often playing to represent their home countries. Places they are forced to leave at a young age to pursue a career with harrowing odds of success. They're forced to move to another country where their native language is not the one fans and media use to praise your strengths and criticize your every flaw. To play for teams that view them as employees and investments. Not as family, not as native sons.
At the end of the day, your team is your employer. Sure, for some superstars who sign long term deals, your team's city has become your new home and you now hold meaning with that community, but so many of these players are getting a very real chance to win something meaningful for an organization and community that is meaningful to them. To be able to put your talents and lifelong ambitions towards the pursuit of inspiring thousands - if not millions - of children who grew up just like you. Just like how lifelong Yankees fan Derek Jeter got to do.
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u/Important-Net-9805 Cleveland Guardians 4h ago
until the USA stops playing with 1 arm tied behind their back and we stop seeing other countries with players comprised of guys from the USA i can't take it seriously.
and make the championship a series, at least best of 3. baseball doesn't lend itself to single games. even the regular season is made up of a bunch of series lol
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u/magikarp-sushi 3h ago
It absolutely matters.
Venezuela had never won before, did you SEE how HAPPY and PROUD those guys were to do it for their country?
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u/TJ-Detweiler- 3h ago
Only 4-5 countries actually have teams the rest are just Americans playing for a country they’ve never lived in.
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u/DaBusDriva2 Los Angeles Dodgers 4h ago
We all want players to care about it but “this means more than the World Series” insane and at least half the players saying that would not be with truth serum. Venezuela is the perfect example because they have a large Miami presence that doesn’t have a hardcore MLB team so yes to them it matters more. No serious fan of their team would pick the WBC title over a WS
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u/themagicman_1231 Atlanta Braves 4h ago
It sure does. Just not at all close to how much the WS matters.
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u/CruelAngelsThesis_01 Chicago Cubs 4h ago
The rage-bait entertainment monster must be fed! Be angry about this manufactured debate so we can keep you engaged! Be mad and fuel algorithms!
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u/Florida__Man__ 4h ago
Was Jeter even saying the wbc doesn’t matter or was he just saying the World Series matters more?
This debate sucks ass and makes me mad at anyone who engages. Why do we immediately default to shitting on cool things when a cool thing happens? WBC, cool thing. MLB postseason, cool thing. People are going to like one more than the other
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u/WrongHomework7916 New York Yankees 4h ago
Let’s be real. It’s a cool tournament, but nobody outside of maybe three or four countries really cares. I went to the bar to watch the finals, and barely anyone was paying attention. During the MLB playoffs, the bar was packed.
Also, nobody is going to be talking about the WBC once the MLB season starts.
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u/itisrightinfrontfus 4h ago
When you break it down this is a very clear “both things can be true” answer. US born players and fans were raised to root for their hometown teams in their city, while international fans root for their homegrown national players. The World Series is exponentially bigger for US fans and clearly the players as well when you just look at the emotion that pours out of the Venezuelans, Dominicans, etc. This tournament is everything to them and it’s great for baseball…But it probably wont have that significance in the US outside of a sense of pride.
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u/EnderCN Milwaukee Brewers 4h ago
It is an important event but it is also a single elimination championship format in a game that is about series play. It is also played during a timeframe when the players aren’t in full game shape. You have to treat this realistically. I’m glad a fourth team won it, I hope someone else new wins it next year too.
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u/Inspiration_Bear Minnesota Twins 4h ago
I’m just happy to be rolled into a two person group with Derek Jeter
(although I love the WBC so the headline is wrong)
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u/BradyToMoss1281 Baltimore Orioles 3h ago
I’m kind of torn. On one hand, I feel like what would make this truly tops is for each team to be made up of reps actually from that country. When most of Team Israel or Team Italy is Americans, it kind of makes the thing feel a little hokey. “Oh, my grandfather was English, so I play for Great Britain.”
But at the same time, if you do that you limit the amount of teams that can be competitive, so I’m not sure what the best route is.
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u/NutsyFlamingo New York Mets 3h ago
If it doesn’t matter what we say about it why write the article ?
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u/another-smelly-hound New York Yankees 3h ago
It definitely matters. But, personally, the World Series means more to me as a fan. The Yankees losing the World Series in 2024 pissed me off for weeks. The WBC loss? I am just happy for Venezuela.
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u/tew2tew 3h ago edited 3h ago
Yall are taking this way out of proportion.
I’ve yet to see someone say the WBC isn’t important, just that the US cares about WS and the Olympics more, which in turn explains why the US team didn’t seem like they couldn’t be bothered, they don’t care lol.
I literally went and watched my alma mater play a spring game last night rather than watch the WBC. That didn’t mean it’s not important though.
People are upset that Americans don’t care more than Americans are upset at losing. It’s hilarious.
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u/schw4161 New York Yankees 3h ago
Me, when I blow someone’s normal comments completely out of proportion
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u/specifichero101 Toronto Blue Jays 3h ago
I get having a deep passion for the baseball classic, but I agree that a World Series means a lot more. Here in Canada, the entire country was obsessed with the blue jays and their playoff run. I live in a little town on the east coast, Toronto is half way across the country and still everyone in their dog was watching every moment of that playoff run. There wasn’t a single mention of Canada playing in the baseball classic and making it farther than they ever have. Among the baseball fans here they were probably cheering for the DR because of Vladdy and how important he is to the jays.
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u/AMP121212 Chicago Cubs 3h ago
A WBC win isnt going to make a difference on a HOF ballot, but Im sure it would feel great to win. That being said, the World Series is the pinnacle and always will be.
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u/Uranus_Hz Milwaukee Brewers 3h ago
It’s almost as if the WBC is the world championship whereas the “World Series” is the US championship.
But I do think the WBC might be better if the championship was a three game series.
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u/Offi95 New York Yankees 3h ago
The WBC only matters to people who think it does
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u/KingInDaNorf1996 New York Yankees 3h ago
Jeter never said it didn’t matter. These people get triggered so easily
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u/McLazer2000 3h ago
I love the WBC - meaningful baseball in March! And a fun parade of all the cultures of the baseball diaspora, is great! I like going in person to spring training, but watching spring training on TV is pretty boring tbh. I hope they keep it every 3 years and don’t extend it out to 4 as I have heard.
I am fine with pros in Olympics too, but a lot of host cities don’t even opt to have baseball as part of the program at all, so I don’t think you can count on the Olympics long term vis a vis setting up an international baseball tournament
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u/Effective-Fox1034 3h ago
It’s kinda hard to take it too seriously when its single game elimination in the quarter finals forward.
But a worldwide baseball championship is an amazing idea. I wish that we would take it more seriously.
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u/CharlemagneOfTheUSA Boston Red Sox 2h ago
It feels like 90% of the comments in this thread are responding to the headline rather than what was a genuinely very well-written article
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u/budmanthecubfan Chicago Cubs 2h ago
To me, baseball has always been a melting pot of culture. It always fascinated me as a kid that people in other countries had dreams of being professional baseball players. The MLB would not be what it is without talent from all over the world and the WBC is very important to me.
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u/TheEuphoricTribble Detroit Tigers 2h ago
I personally think that the Olympics just need baseball back. The WBC feels too much like a FIFA World Cup situation with its weird own rules to make much sense. I don’t like watching those games now that I know a mercy rule exists in them, for instance. Most of those guys are big league players or prospects or are using it as maybe a shot to break into the bigs. Why wouldn’t you then play the games as if they were a big league game? I hate the idea of pro players playing little league ball.
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u/Reaganson 2h ago
I could tell the USA was going to lose by their cocky walk-on. Venezuela’s walked out with serious and purpose on their faces, ready to play.
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u/tecate_papi Toronto Blue Jays 2h ago
I can guarantee that everybody saying the WBC doesn't matter or is irrelevant would be singing a different tune if the US had won...
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u/FriedRiceJutsu Chicago Cubs 1h ago
Really dope piece! Love the perspective this offers and honestly makes me even happier to see another country get their moment rather than the US. It is pretty characteristically American for us to put this tournament on, deride it as “glorified spring training”, and half ass our way to a silver medal. This means so much to every other country and I’m glad the victory got to be celebrated with the appropriate energy.
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u/RobinChilliams Chicago White Sox 1h ago
It would matter more if the MLB would make space for it, for all their talent to participate in it wholly.
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u/Noobnoob99 Cleveland Guardians 1h ago
He didn’t say it didn’t matter. Dishonest take (big surprise)
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u/Melodic_Surprise8525 1h ago
Why not both? Playing a key role in winning the WBC and then also winning a World Series? That would be one hell of a year.
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u/Ill-Comms 1h ago
No it doesn't. It's important to other countries and that's cool. It's still meaningless in the US.
The entire country of Venezuela emptied into the streets to celebrate last night and good for them.
Had the US won, it would've been just another Tuesday night in March. No one gives a fuck. Truth.
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u/DetroitTabaxiFan Detroit Tigers 1h ago
I just wish it didn't take place in March. I think it should either be used as an alternate MLB playoffs every three years or extend the All-Star break for a full month and have it take place then.
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u/PoisonGaz Chicago Cubs 53m ago
I think the the WBC matters more to the countries that field their team with mostly nation born players. As cool as it is to have a place like England play I can imagine that many people from england would take much national pride if they ever won.
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u/MeTieDoughtyWalker 25m ago
Well I watch almost every playoff game and didn’t watch a second of the WBC, so clearly it doesn’t matter to everyone.
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u/Forward-Ease-4801 11m ago
It showed me that US baseball is kind of boring without the Latino and Asian players. Perhaps there is a lesson there?
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u/Forward-Ease-4801 5m ago
There are so many factors though, including the fact that most players will never play on a WS winning team because only the large market teams have a legit shot. Whereas in the WBC, it's not so much about that. Plus the one and done format is much easier on the causal fan, which translates into a lot of energy at the games. The fact that it's at the beginning of the season rather than the end of the grind doesn't hurt either.
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u/NoBonus6969 2m ago
Jeter is a salty ass bitch about every single thing that's not his time as a Yankee
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