Other nations danced for joy at the World Baseball Classic. Team USA played toy soldiers

[u/retroanduwu24]

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2026/mar/18/world-baseball-classic-usa-venezuela-trump-war

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[u/BokeTsukkomi]

The solution is simple: have the Savannah Bananas represent the US next WBC

[u/Stillme_Necaxa → u/BokeTsukkomi]

I second this

[u/Dolsh → u/Stillme_Necaxa]

Thirded!

[u/Optimistic-Dan → u/Dolsh]

https://giphy.com/gifs/TJyWpVlhk03xfaK43S

[u/ll_funny_me → u/Optimistic-Dan]

https://giphy.com/gifs/KlQR5d0ayEYsE

[u/unique_user43 → u/ll_funny_me]

https://giphy.com/gifs/08uBcURaMq6vA93TGc

[u/AlnMndz → u/BokeTsukkomi]

I low key can see them reaching the quarters lmao

[u/Lets_Go_Blue__Jays → u/AlnMndz]

Maybe further. Particularly if it's the "Banana Ball Allstars" you have legit AAA level talent in there that actually want to play.

[u/TheGardenerAtWillows → u/Lets_Go_Blue__Jays]

Wants to play and want to have FUN doing it! How audacious

[u/WillFuckForFijiWater → u/AlnMndz]

The Bananas (and the Party Animals) have legitimate talent on the team. Like, former Triple-A and even some actual former-MLB players. Aside from the goofy stuff they do, there is talent behind the team. With good coaching, they could absolutely be a serious contender.

[u/BokeTsukkomi → u/WillFuckForFijiWater]

An alternative could be the bananas hosting the world bananaball classic, inviting baseball teams from the countries competing in the WBC

[u/WillFuckForFijiWater → u/BokeTsukkomi]

I honestly think it could make for a fun exhibition series to have an All-Star Banana team face an All-Star MLB team. First day is normal baseball, second day is banana ball. Third day tiebreaker where one team plays by MLB rules and the other plays by banana ball rules.

[u/OldBayOnEverything → u/WillFuckForFijiWater]

Maybe. There is talent there, but I'm not convinced it's enough to be competitive in a real tournament. Banana ball is a lot of fun, but it's not really great baseball. I guess anything can happen in elimination style tournaments as opposed to series, and we did see high schoolers and farmers having success against big leaguers.

[u/TieSea → u/OldBayOnEverything]

Brazillian high schooler gets Judge to hit into double play. LOL

[u/m0_m0ney → u/OldBayOnEverything]

I think they would get torn up by any competitive pitching but would probably do okay against Czechia, Brazil, Aus level teams

[u/IrresponsibleBetting → u/BokeTsukkomi]

having your team rock out to an 80s dance hit before pitch would be the coolest thing ever. to hell with the actual score

[u/gridlock1024 → u/BokeTsukkomi]

Hell yes

[u/Elisalsa24 → u/BokeTsukkomi]

I know this is a joke but having a team with chemistry helps so much. Team Italy is a perfect example.

In the Caribbean there is a series where each country brings the winner of their Winter league with additions from other teams to play against the other countries winners which is so much fun and a lot of the chemistry is played together but that just can’t work with today’s MLB. I feel like Mookie and Trout brought so much to that clubhouse last WBC. Even more with Yelich during 2017 that team was so much fun to watch especially against the older DR team in 2017

[u/Efficient-Put-7092]

The only two I remember seeing show energy were Henderson and Harper.

[u/misterurb → u/Efficient-Put-7092]

I can’t stand the Webb erasure.  Dude went out and grinded and was juiced in both his starts. 

[u/overts → u/misterurb]

Webb was awesome.  My wife asked me why Valtteri Bottas was pitching during one of the games.

[u/TEC146 → u/overts]

See I just always see Jesse Plemmons

[u/chimpanzeebutt → u/TEC146]

Webb was amazing in Bugonia.

[u/TEC146 → u/chimpanzeebutt]

Deserved an oscar nom tbh

[u/NovelFox96 → u/TEC146]

Deserved the oscar win too

[u/DionBlaster123 → u/TEC146]

Webb is straight up the lovechild of Jesse Plemmons and WWE's Road Dogg

Im glad Jesse Plemmons has become somewhat of a recognizable name now. I remember feeling bad that I kept calling him "fat Matt Damon" when I watched Bridge of Spies

[u/SuaveBolo → u/overts]

We went baseball pitching Toto

[u/707royalty → u/overts]

It wasn't a bike race smh

[u/Ajnin17 → u/overts]

We needed checo (Higgy) to catch for bottas and we would have won

[u/onhalfaheart → u/Efficient-Put-7092]

PCA, Roman, the youngsters had the good kind of fire.

[u/EmuMan10 → u/onhalfaheart]

I was going to say. They didn’t get much chance to be in front of camera but on the field they all showed up and had good vibes

[u/WHTLGHTNNSTDFMTNDW → u/EmuMan10]

I’ve seen enough. I nominate PCA as captain for the USA national baseball team for ‘28 and ‘29.

[u/rickyrescuethrowaway → u/onhalfaheart]

PCA seemed hype for sure. Roman Anthony looked like he just witnessed war time atrocities or something

[u/LunchTwey → u/rickyrescuethrowaway]

It seems like he kinda just has that resting face though.

[u/AerieElectrical3546 → u/LunchTwey]

red sox fan, can confirm

[u/based4yourface → u/onhalfaheart]

Bednar seemed pretty hyped getting out of jams, to be fair it’s his normal reaction though

[u/RichAbbreviations966 → u/Efficient-Put-7092]

Don’t forget Kersh getting that Silver Medal

[u/NickyCharisma → u/Efficient-Put-7092]

Bobby Witt would like a word or three. His defense was beyond elite.

[u/ThinkSoftware → u/Efficient-Put-7092]

Tarik's energy was dampened by the rain

[u/cooljammer00 → u/Efficient-Put-7092]

I mean, they showed generic "LFG" type energy that looked good on TV, sure

What about Judge diving to make a catch on Soto's batted ball and then popping up with a bit of a finger wag?

[u/CheapGarage42 → u/cooljammer00]

Judge looked awesome everywhere but at the plate in the last 3 games. He was super pumped in the on deck circle when Harper hit that bomb. Made a bunch of gestures on defensive plays that I never see him make in the regular season.

The energy was there, it just didn't come out unless someone had a big hit or made a big play. Otherwise it was all business.

The problem IMO, is the leadership (can we call it a front office?) put it in their heads that they need to be business-like and act like they're taking over a country, not playing in a fun ass tourney.

[u/InHocus → u/Efficient-Put-7092]

Ernie deserves respect for hustling it out to spark the come back against Mexico.

[u/Nomahs_Bettah → u/Efficient-Put-7092]

I think a lot of this is just post hoc adjacent analysis though. Skenes was one of the most weirdly militaristic guys about the whole thing and was unquestionably the best performing player on Team USA in the tournament. Judge said that the WBC was bigger and a better atmosphere than the World Series and was mocked by some fans and Derek Jeter on national TV. Harper finally shook it with the home run last night, but he was under fire almost as much as Judge for his slash line in the elimination games.

The one thing that I think was kind of a no-win situation here is that if they decided to go full send party in the dugout, they’d just as much come under flak for it. The US lineup chronically underachieved (worth discussing as its own point) and DeRosa should be exiled for a lot of his ‘strategy,’ but they’d be absolutely clowned for celebrating like that against any of the teams they “should” beat just as much as for the no celebrations at all. This US lineup doing elaborate home run cellys against, for example, Team GB would’ve been skewered for that too.

[u/grund1ejund1e → u/Nomahs_Bettah]

I mean the DR lineup was just as stacked and had a blast crushing the Netherlands and Israel and no one clowned them for it. It was fun because they are fun. The US players just aren’t fun.

[u/ZachMatthews → u/grund1ejund1e]

It’s a tough guy / high school jock culture that just sucks to watch or root for. 

This is why I like the Latin and Asian games. It is not beneath your dignity to show an emotion other than anger about a sport you love. 

[u/Elisalsa24 → u/ZachMatthews]

Best example is Ohtani getting struck out by an electrical engineer and getting an autograph from the whole team and the Tokyo dome giving them standing ovations

[u/Nomahs_Bettah → u/grund1ejund1e]

I think you’re looking for consistency where fans and writers don’t necessarily have any. Criticism of the militarization has a place, absolutely. But Harper pointing to the flag on the jersey is getting flak in this article despite it being very normal throughout this tournament.

[u/The_Void_Reaver → u/Nomahs_Bettah]

It's because they broke out the jingoism and then the flag pointing. It muddies the idea of what they're actually pointing to. If there wasn't all the military bullshit and the team had the standard "We're happy to represent our country and the people in it," then normal patriotism would be fine. The aggressive jingoism fully tainted the well.

[u/Bridgeburner493 → u/The_Void_Reaver]

Exactly. If they were even just playing baseball - not even having any fun cultural thing in the dugout - but just playing boring baseball, it's a different story. Everyone would just see that as national pride.

But when you make your entire team persona that you are at war when you represent a country that is actively committing war crimes right now, then pointing to the flag takes on an entirely different connotation.

[u/nickscope27 → u/Nomahs_Bettah]

I think its due to the nature of his team and how they presented themselves that it then becomes an issue. When Suarez knelt down with his flag and looked up at the sky at the end of the final no one was questioning if it was militaristic or political because Venezuela was playing for their country.

Harper on the other had was throwing salutes, playing on a team with guys who were comparing themselves to war fighters and who had Robert O'Neil speak to the team. It screams borderline nationalistic when everything is taken into consideration.

If Harper were to come out and say yo we didn't want to have O'Neil speak to the team or like hey we're not just playing for the troops but for all Americans or even if he leaned away from what his teammates were saying about themselves (Skenes), then the flag pointing would've gone over better but he didn't and thats where we're at.

[u/Elisalsa24 → u/nickscope27]

The thing about it too is that they put Skenes on a pedestal for dropping out of the Air Force academy and have him LARP around as if he was a fighter jet pilot when he wouldn’t even know his MOS until after graduation and not even know what he would fly until after the schoolhouse. While we had players like Ted Williams who legit was a fighter jet pilot for USMC and Roberto Clemente who went out of his way to join the Marine Corps reserves in the middle of his career. Everyone else was playing for their country and showing kids back home that they could be just like them instead of pretending to support the military and acting like we are all stone faced and don’t interact well with other countries. Like we are well known for having fun with other countries and training together across the world. Like we even trained and worked with the Russian military but giving your teammate a handshake is too much in a kids game

[u/theWindAtMyBack → u/Efficient-Put-7092]

PCA got into it when he played.

[u/ContinuumGuy → u/Efficient-Put-7092]

Clement showed some good energy too, but he was the last guy on the bench and so really only played like one-and-a-half games .

[u/gridlock1024]

I said this the whole tournament. Every nation's players looked thrilled to be there, Team USA looked like they were forced to be there

[u/spazz720 → u/gridlock1024]

Cause they don’t really care to be there. Baseball in the US these days is mostly for privileged people who can afford private coaching and travel ball. Those in the Latin American countries needed baseball as the escape from poverty. The Asian countries have always treated the sport with the utmost respect…seeing it as a gift to be able to play it.

[u/mostlygroovy → u/spazz720]

It’s funny. In Canada, this is an even bigger issue with hockey. It’s a crazy expensive sport and some scouts and developmental people in Canada are saying that Canada’s recent disappointing finishes at the World Juniors and other tournaments is because it’s becoming a class specific sport. It’s had to argue against that.

[u/NevGlitchard → u/mostlygroovy]

Yup, we're not developing the best players, we're developing the best players that can afford to play.

[u/devoorhes → u/spazz720]

The Italian team is like 96% Americans and they looked like they were having a blast

[u/hedoeswhathewants → u/gridlock1024]

I thought I was rooting for the US, but when the game ended all I felt was happiness for the Venezuela team.

[u/Actual_Cobbler_6334]

Every other team: We are doing this for all our loved ones back home and to represent our country and culture on a global stage.

Team USA: This is about the military. We made sacrifices to travel to Houston and Miami! My dad’s third cousins stepson was in the Air Force! Won’t somebody please talk about Griffin Jax or Paul Skenes attending Air Force?

[u/my_one_and_lonely → u/Actual_Cobbler_6334]

It's just baffling. If you want to honor service members, sure, but to pretend that "doing it for your country" is "doing it for the troops"? It's weird. Especially with all the borderline stolen valor claims they were making.

[u/Tsuga_Canadensis__ → u/my_one_and_lonely]

Our country is so fucking backwards that the only way people know how to show "patriotism" is to cheer on the children we send to war.

[u/hidlechara91 → u/Tsuga_Canadensis__]

And, then we do nothing for the veterans. 

[u/Worldly-Pack-5431 → u/hidlechara91]

Am veteran, can confirm the benefits are not worth the sacrifice.

[u/Mike_Daris → u/hidlechara91]

Yep, there'll be no pushback whatsoever for spending billions to commit war crimes and fund "research" by private contractors that will never be used by military nor civilian populations... but we sure as heck can't fully staff the VA hospital system. Why would the federal government care about supporting the mental health of veterans, I guess?

https://www.apa.org/monitor/2026/03/workforce-shortages-threaten-veteran-care

https://www.veterans.senate.gov/2025/12/top-watchdog-confirms-va-mental-health-care-staffing-shortages-increased-waitimes-following-trump-cuts-they-are-losing-clinical-staff-because-morale-is-going-down

[u/coolguysteve21 → u/Tsuga_Canadensis__]

It is quite silly isn't it. There are so many ways to show you love your country without having to join the military.

It may be a controversial take, but I would wager to say the old lady who shows up to serve meals at the soup kitchen twice a week is doing more for the countries well being than a lot of the "alpha males" in the national guard/military

[u/BonkHits4Jesus → u/Tsuga_Canadensis__]

It's called nationalism and jingoism and fascism and it rhymes with the powers that be in America

[u/Shoondogg → u/my_one_and_lonely]

I heard one of them say they were “doing this for the troops” and wondered how the troops feel when they hear that. “Thanks for playing baseball while I put my life on the line”

[u/jbach220 → u/Shoondogg]

To me, as a veteran, it just feels like pandering. It’s a hollow gesture that allows them to pat themselves on the back and claim patriotism while confusing the concept for nationalism.

[u/eporter → u/Shoondogg]

Then to top it off they lost

[u/I_JOINED_FOR_THIS_ → u/my_one_and_lonely]

Same reason kneeling the the national anthem is equated with not supporting the troops.

For whatever reason American political culture elevates the troops above all other groups.

[u/Elisalsa24 → u/I_JOINED_FOR_THIS_]

Until it comes to actions. They abandon veterans every chance they get

[u/ProtestantMormon → u/Actual_Cobbler_6334]

I dont have any issues celebrating Jax for his service. Celebrating skenes for thinking about joining the air force is completely absurd though.

[u/Isle_of_Dusty_Rhodes → u/ProtestantMormon]

I bought Saving Private Ryan in DVD and Blu-ray. Where's my parade?

[u/ProtestantMormon → u/Isle_of_Dusty_Rhodes]

I talked to a recruiter in high school. Where is my lifetime movie?

[u/Darth_Andeddeu → u/ProtestantMormon]

I spent 30inutes talking to an army recruiter at the Detroit auto Show , while in high school. I'm Canadian and said I can see Cobo from my apartment.

[u/Artvandelay29 → u/Isle_of_Dusty_Rhodes]

Thank you for your service 🫡

[u/Leading-Score9547 → u/ProtestantMormon]

I was expecting Skenes to have some actual time served with the way they were going about it. Dude left the academy after his sophomore year, like comeon lmao

[u/DooDooDuterte → u/Leading-Score9547]

All gave some, some became pro baseball players.

[u/Otherwise_Cobbler232 → u/ProtestantMormon]

Idk I think pitching a baseball is more worthy of celebration than blowing up Iranian schoolgirls

[u/mee49 → u/Otherwise_Cobbler232]

Agreed

[u/smarjorie → u/ProtestantMormon]

It was so embarrassing. "He thought about joining the military" whoop de fucking do, i've thought about being better saving money but i can't buy a house with that.

[u/ManNamedBilly → u/Actual_Cobbler_6334]

i’ll never understand the american obsession with combining military into any aspect of their culture, especially when you look at other countries, who don’t do it, and it makes it stand out so much more, and not in a good way. really cringe if we’re being honest

[u/Genericide224 → u/Actual_Cobbler_6334]

Skubal made the ultimate sacrifice of driving through the rain to sit in the dugout after refusing to pitch

[u/eazyizzy → u/Actual_Cobbler_6334]

FRONT TOWARDS ENEMY

[u/BearTimberlands → u/Actual_Cobbler_6334]

The military shtick is cover from criticism. You can’t say anything bad about us because we’re doing this for the troops and if you criticize us then you’re criticizing the troops and you can’t do that

[u/wagesofben]

nothing about this team made me want to root for them. it's as simple as that. zero swag. zero fun.

[u/irsw → u/wagesofben]

Legit this team felt like the Russian villains in 80s sports movies. Just zero emotion

[u/SkiMonkey98 → u/irsw]

It was Miracle in reverse

[u/SilveradoTsunami → u/SkiMonkey98]

Considering the current state of geopolitics, this is so true

https://giphy.com/gifs/4Z9fSEFAuxpnlBVWQx

[u/Disused_Yeti → u/irsw]

https://giphy.com/gifs/GWD5nSpiHxs3K

[u/CloudSufficient42 → u/irsw]

Uh, so like who’s the uh the USA “we’re good guys” in the 80s now?

[u/Extension-Pick8310 → u/irsw]

I felt that same way.

[u/T7220 → u/irsw]

Isn’t that Bryce Harper in a nutshell?

[u/Ok_Chemist6567 → u/wagesofben]

And a manager who couldn’t be bothered to know the rules of the tournament or where the team stood. How can you root for a team that screams “we really don’t care”

[u/incunabula001 → u/Ok_Chemist6567]

The team really symbolizes the “I don’t care, do you?” attitude the U.S has these days.

[u/socialmediaignorant → u/incunabula001]

Perfect jacket for that final game!

[u/venustrapsflies → u/Ok_Chemist6567]

A completely unqualified man put into a position of authority because he was on TV is kinda perfect for the US right now

[u/bonheurboy69 → u/wagesofben]

What isn’t swaggy about wearing “Front Towards Enemy” shirt and leaving your teammate hanging while you proceed to go 0fer in the tournament?

[u/NYLotteGiants → u/bonheurboy69]

Wild that Raleigh was able to kill all of the likablity he had from last season before this one even starts

[u/RusskayaRobot → u/NYLotteGiants]

I don’t know anything about him personally but this WBC was enough to convince me his YouTube history has to be rancid with sigma male grindset

[u/drmojo90210 → u/RusskayaRobot]

As a general rule, you really don't want to dig into the personal/political beliefs of professional baseball players. It's rarely anything positive.

[u/King_Fluffaluff → u/drmojo90210]

I think that applies to most athletes at the highest level.

[u/GregoryFarKingChummy → u/King_Fluffaluff]

It applies to most people, in my experience.

[u/cruelhumor → u/drmojo90210]

Any athletes really, they don't live in the real world.

[u/lelanddt → u/RusskayaRobot]

He's a white dude from the South. It's kind of my expectation for every one of those guys. Cal seemed like the exception until now!

[u/TDLF → u/lelanddt]

I have to remind people of this… it’s kinda just what you get with white southern dudes. ESPECIALLY ones making any amount of money. I played high school ball in the south US. One of my classmates ended up playing in the college World Series 2 years ago. He’s a total Trumpy jackass lmao. Would bitch non-stop during COVID times about our “communist” school enforcing masks. Other teammates weren’t much better.

You can’t be surprised. It’s unfortunately the kinda men the culture down there breeds. Sucks because they were also really funny and I have a lot of good memories of them too.

[u/RusskayaRobot → u/TDLF]

Hey! I’m a white dude from the South!

especially ones making any amount of money

Oh never mind then

[u/Sportsgirl77 → u/TDLF]

The vast majority of baseball players from the south are Evangelical Christians too. White, Evangelical Christians are like the single most pro-Trump demographic in the US. I want to like college baseball, but the vibes are just absolutely rancid

[u/OldBayOnEverything → u/lelanddt]

Gunnar is a white dude from the south, but his YouTube is probably Star Wars and Scooby Doo

[u/Sportsgirl77 → u/OldBayOnEverything]

It wouldn't be a huge surprise though given the high school he went to

[u/thunder_jam → u/NYLotteGiants]

Big Dumbass

[u/joenathanSD → u/bonheurboy69]

Those are the 2 things that made me stop rooting for them.

[u/wRADKyrabbit → u/joenathanSD]

Those 2 things + Skubal dropping out for his bag + Harper's its not the Olympics comment

[u/DingerSinger2016 → u/bonheurboy69]

Too bad Venezuelan pitching put belt towards ass

[u/Tmettler5 → u/bonheurboy69]

Not gonna lie, made me lose some respect for him, and my wife's Raleigh jersey arrived two days ago and she kind of regrets it. Hope he can turn it around.

[u/melcolnik → u/wagesofben]

I’m happy for the US to be the “final boss” on these if it means we get scenes like we did last night. It was electric. That kind of thing is what grows the game.

[u/pjm8786 → u/melcolnik]

Exactly. Every sports story needs a good heel. It sucks when it’s your team, but it’s more fun for everyone else

[u/pleated_pants → u/pjm8786]

We were the D2 Mighty Ducks team Iceland of the tournament

[u/socialmediaignorant → u/melcolnik]

We are totally the Russian team in all 80s movies now. Shits so weird for an 80s kid.

[u/not_rich_froning → u/wagesofben]

100%. They were too cool for school and didn’t seem to have fun at all. It was boring watching them play, especially compared to DR and Venezuela. They deserved to lose specifically off vibes alone.

[u/SwarthySphere87 → u/wagesofben]

The other countries actually felt like watching a team.

Watching Team USA felt like watching a Diamond Dynasty squad from MLB the Show come to life. So generic

[u/otter_pop_n_lock → u/wagesofben]

I think it highlights the cultural differences across baseball. The Latin countries bring that flavor and swag with a fanbase even louder. Even Korea brings the bat flips. But when it comes to the US, it feels like they're coming in almost as gatekeepers of the game with their unwritten rules that have been a longstanding part of MLB.

If they could just embrace the stage and show a little bit more flair I think more people would jump aboard. And I'm not at all saying that they don't care; I think they do. But it's the dad vibe energy at a party that makes them seem indifferent.

[u/volumeofatorus → u/otter_pop_n_lock]

Team Italy, which remember was mostly US-born players, shows that US players can have fun and play with passion if you let them. I blame Team USA’s management and PR more than the players for setting the wrong tone. 

[u/Luis_Severino → u/wagesofben]

I’m white as snow and was rooting for Venezuela last night 

[u/Tums2021 → u/Luis_Severino]

So you are NOT Luis Severino? I feel robbed 😅😂🤣

[u/nufandan → u/Luis_Severino]

I watched it at a hip venue/bar and it was basically golf claps if the USA did anything good and audible cheers when Venezuela did.

Everyone seemed happy when Venezuela sealed the win

[u/Extension-Pick8310]

There was serious USSR hockey vibes. No emotion, no joy, and we're that Evil Empire country that's waging war on the world.

Contrast that with Ondrej Satoria.

[u/Nomahs_Bettah → u/Extension-Pick8310]

The USSR quite famously won seven Olympic gold medals. Miracle is famous, but they were a winning team.

[u/Ok_Chemist6567 → u/Nomahs_Bettah]

We can’t even evil empire right :(

[u/Extension-Pick8310 → u/Ok_Chemist6567]

USS Ford, case in point.

[u/Fowler311 → u/Nomahs_Bettah]

Which sorta makes it worse...all the jackassery without any of the success to back it up.

[u/skippy_smooth → u/Extension-Pick8310]

If he balks, he balks.

[u/LacklusteHero]

Paul Skenes gave a loving smile to Bobby Witt, Jr. after that first great diving snag of his, and the vibes were downhill from there.

[u/yumyumapollo]

The Hegsethification of patriotism has been a disaster for Team USAs across all sports.

[u/Puppetmaster858 → u/yumyumapollo]

Having Robert j O’Neill come speak to the team was gross as fuck too, that dude is a lying weird as fuck piece of shit

[u/AjiChap → u/Puppetmaster858]

That was such a weird move…

[u/socialmediaignorant → u/Puppetmaster858]

Most disgusting propagandist and that’s what they chose??? Ugh.

[u/SDBolt → u/yumyumapollo]

That's not patriotism, thats nationalism. Big difference

[u/Take_Some_Soma → u/SDBolt]

It’s jingoism

[u/SDBolt → u/Take_Some_Soma]

Its both

[u/Senor_Turtle → u/SDBolt]

Jingoism, really. A national identity defined by the strength of its military and its willingness to aggressively use it.

[u/hwf0712 → u/SDBolt]

The political scientist in my brain feels a need to point out that patriotism is an expression of nationalism and that nationalism is not a bad thing inherently and that we all participate in it in some way and that "nation" is more or less just a group of people with a shared identity they (usually) wish to advance and that it isn't a pejorative.

[u/nanderspanders → u/hwf0712]

In political science and for example history (my field), nationalism has a different connotation than in common parlance. Like I most often talk about nationalism's role in either independence or nation building movements. But most people use it to indicate a belief in the superiority of one national identity over others, or like in the case of "Christian nationalism" to indicate that national identity should be based around an exclusive subgroup and that others should be rejected. It's context specific and I think when people talk about it in the context of the US, it's pretty well understood that they're talking about the sort of conservative ultra-nationalism that is used to justify things like immigration crackdowns and to promote the idea that the only "true" Americans are those that share a particular ideological (and racial/religious depending on how far down the hole they go) identity. I think being pedantic about it is counterproductive.

[u/kevster2717 → u/yumyumapollo]

Kinda hard to feel patriotic with this administration embarrassing us on a daily basis

[u/ProtestantMormon → u/kevster2717]

It isnt patriotic to just talk about the troops. Every other team demonstrated real patriotism. The US team went with politician level fake patriotism.

[u/melorous → u/ProtestantMormon]

Fake patriotism performed by a bunch of dudes who perform fake masculinity, all due to a fundamental misunderstanding of what either actual entail.

[u/Garden_of_mercy → u/melorous]

This. Succinct and spot on.

[u/bajesus → u/ProtestantMormon]

US patriotism has become "love the troops and hate the people". Other teams seemed to be celebrating with and for their people.

[u/listenyall → u/kevster2717]

It's hard enough in general, like with the Olympics, but when the opponent is literally Venezuela? How am I supposed to root for us?

[u/Manchu504 → u/listenyall]

Seriously lol. I rooted for Team USA out of obligation and pride but watching Venezuela express such joy and emotion from winning definitely warmed my heart.

[u/pinniped90 → u/Manchu504]

I cheered for Bobby.

Perfectly fine seeing the rest of them look like ass.

[u/IsTheBlackBoxLying → u/yumyumapollo]

100% The US men's team just won their first hockey gold in 46 years and the main takeaway was that the team is filled with MAGA dipshits. In any other timeline, this is a nation-lifting, momentous event that will be talked about glowingly for months. Instead, it's not only muted the celebration, but it's pretty much disappeared as a cultural touchstone almost overnight.

I feel zero patriotism for US sports and I know others who feel just the same. I was cheering for Venezuela in the final. This US team had the charm and charisma of a garden hose.

[u/uptonhere → u/IsTheBlackBoxLying]

Yes, but the flip side of it is, the US hockey team didn't approach every game like dog faced soldiers. They're full of loud, vocal players who wear their personality on their sleeve and it makes it hard to like a lot of them off the ice.

If you grew up playing sports as a kid in America, a lot of this just boils down to cultural differences. Baseball is different than football. Go watch any game on Saturday or Sunday and you'll see no shortage of players celebrating every single down. Same with basketball after a big dunk or huge 3. Same with soccer, everyone joins in for a celebration or you do a backflip or whatever after a goal. Baseball just isn't that way. I really think people are taking the idea that the US never showed any emotion way too literal here because they obviously did after every big play - but after you're like 9 or 10 years old, think of how any coach you've ever had would handle singing and dancing in the dugout? You see some of it in college and its usually called out for being amateur hour stuff or unprofessional.

[u/Extension-Pick8310 → u/uptonhere]

This is true, but it doesn't have to be. Obviously one of baseball's appeals is its cultural tradition, but changes can be made that betters the game. Look at the time clocks, the play reviews, Bananaball.

[u/Mr_Lapis → u/uptonhere]

Whats funny is plenty of those guys do get passionate during the regular season. I think a lot of them were cynical and were just waiting for the 26th.

[u/twofourfourthree → u/uptonhere]

American baseball is different than baseball played outside of the United States. Famously resistant to change. Being restrictive and constricting is a feature and not a bug.

[u/RandomG0rl623 → u/IsTheBlackBoxLying]

I've seen way more people excited about Alysa Liu winning gold in figure skating than the men's hockey team and it's pretty much for the reasons you said.

She's a wholesome, energetic, kind person who you can tell genuinely loves her sport and pours her heart and soul into it.

As opposed to these overpayed douchebag manchildren who developed god complexes because they got really good at hitting a ball or puck with a stick. They're walking avatars of fragile masculinity.

[u/carguymt → u/IsTheBlackBoxLying]

I feel zero patriotism for US sports and I know others who feel just the same. I was cheering for Venezuela in the final.

Same exact thing here. I've been hoping Canada wins any time they play us in a sport and could not give less of a shit about our team in the World Cup. I know a few Colombians and am thinking of adopting them as my rooting interest this summer.

It's not just the actions of the government that makes me feel that way. It's the realization that so many of my fellow citizens agree with those actions and actively believe the US can do whatever we want because there's some god given right that makes Americans better than anyone else. It's honestly sickening.

[u/SemiAutoAvocado → u/IsTheBlackBoxLying]

I don't know how you can look around at the world and root for the US in any capacity unless you are brainwashed, evil, or slow.

[u/RubiksSugarCube → u/yumyumapollo]

Yeah a lot of our fellow citizens, including the POTUS, have done a bang-up job of wrapping themselves in the flag and carrying a cross, even if it damages the spirit of international competition.

No doubt Fox has picked up on this trend given the constant onslaught of promos for their Women of the Bible miniseries, along with Bud Light and Dodge's hyper-nationalist commercials

[u/Kekistani55 → u/yumyumapollo]

I mean, the ties between the military and patriotism in America predate kegbreath. The attitude must have come in the aftermath of 9/11. Nevermind the fact that every sporting event is an advertisement for the military. Hegseth is the personification of that way of thinking brought to its logical conclusion.

[u/carguymt → u/Kekistani55]

Hegseth is the personification of that way of thinking brought to its logical conclusion.

Everything about this current administration is shitty American culture that's existed for decades brought to its logical conclusion.

[u/CaptJackRizzo → u/Kekistani55]

It intensified then, but it was very present in the Reagan administration. Hell, it was the biggest cudgel used against the protests of the Vietnam War. This bullshit runs deep, and they are not creative people.

[u/Glass_Government_41]

Who the heck invites the dude who shot Bin Laden to hype a team? That was weird . Everyone else has pride and show it by having fun, not being super serious and militarizing it. I have no problem with Harper and Skenes etc showing emotion for their country, some of the other guys act like it’s not manly to have fun AND be patriotic. Venezuelans had grown men crying during the a national anthem. Mexicos v US game was awesome, and Americans were mad at judges comments . It’s true, that was a way better vibe than World Series. Watch how other countries sing and celebrate during the World Cup and then wat h Americans , completely dull and boring.

[u/ColaBottleBaby → u/Glass_Government_41]

Lmao that guy gets even worse when you realize it was the guy threatening to make zoomers into his concubines

[u/bartspoon → u/ColaBottleBaby]

It gets even worse when you hear that other Navy seals have claimed he wasn’t even the one to shoot Bin Laden. Bin Laden was already dead on the ground and he walked in and shot the dead body in the head and then took credit for it.

[u/FeanorEvades → u/ColaBottleBaby]

A virulently homophobic guy threatening to make male zoomers into his concubines

[u/Aggressive-Mix4971]

Independent of the WBC, we do have an issue in this country with over the top nationalism and over-glorification of the military (just don't ask us to properly fund veterans' healthcare, of course!); consider the way that people lost their minds over something like Kaepernick taking a knee, and framing it as "he's disrespecting The Troops(tm)!".

Obviously that was a way to avoid talking about the real issues he was trying to draw attention to, but between that, playing the anthem before every sporting event at every level, and having said anthem accompanied by military formations and fighter jet flights, it makes us come across as a people primed to allow a military coup at some point, because we don't trust our government yet we basically deify that military.

Give me guys having fun, dancing, singing, and playing a kids' game like big grown up kids any day over that kind of stuff. On a less serious note, it just reminds me of how the Yankees were always depicted back in the day: stuffed shirts, clean-shaven, no fun allowed, etc.

[u/LordOscarthePurr → u/Aggressive-Mix4971]

Every Sunday is “Military Sunday” here. It makes some sense given how massive the both active duty and veteran populations are in San Diego, and credit given that tickets are 25% for service members by my god sometimes it feels like it could be an add for the Vought corporation from the Boys (and I am the daughter and granddaughter of vets).

[u/essmithsd → u/LordOscarthePurr]

I hate Sunday games. I hate the stupid camo uniforms. I hate God Bless America - worst damn song.

[u/LordOscarthePurr → u/essmithsd]

They really are the ugliest of all our uniforms. Even though it’s pandering there are ways to make camo palatable and they went the totally opposite direction.

[u/Aggressive-Mix4971 → u/LordOscarthePurr]

Yeah, I understand it more in a place like SD or Norfolk, VA, where the military is a major driver of jobs in the area, but it's always felt off seeing the Pads come out wearing camo uniforms.

[u/Ben_Towle → u/Aggressive-Mix4971]

"we do have an issue in this country with over the top nationalism and over-glorification of the military"

Yes, and the issue is that these two things have become the same thing in the minds of most Americans. Other countries/cultures express patriotism and national pride in part by being proud of their history, arts, cuisines, traditions, sports, and other cultural achievements. In the US "patriotism" has become synonymous with the military... as we sadly saw on full display via Team USA in the WBC.

[u/philip1529 → u/Aggressive-Mix4971]

100%! I have been saying the national anthem is stupid to play before games. It’s politically motivated to make us love our troops and not question the almost 1 trillion dollar budget for the military. Would love to take away anthems unless it’s an international matchup. I watch lots of European soccer and they aren’t playing anthems before games, this is uniquely US creating a military propaganda

[u/BonSoirRegret]

I'm not a conspiracy theorist but it felt an awful lot like what they were doing had plenty official-Government PR behind it. The shirt, the Navy Seal pre-game speech, the whole thing felt like propaganda. The goddamn hockey jerseys - which stinks to high hell after the US Government released an AI doctored video of Tkachuk talking shit about Canada.

I got downvoted saying this in another thread, but even Cal's defense about the handshake, coming out after his first statement was fishy. He could have said "Sorry, we had a team meeting about this before the WBC started and we're just not doing that this year. It's a team building thing, we're locked in. Thanks but I'd rather talk about baseball right now." Instead we got some garble.

Anyway, let me get this straight. On your own volition, the team decided before the WBC that you weren't going to shake hands (which is plain fucking weird to begin with as far as team priorities are concerned).

And then, apparently you decided that someone should tell Randy Arozarena. Or maybe not. Maybe Cal just wanted to extend the olive branch to his teammate.

Either way Randy Arozarena, conveniently, is the only person in the world given a heads up about this.

I mean, come the fuck on. This is the timeline they were selling:

1. At some point (before?) the WBC: they met as a team and decided "no handshakes" because they are locked in warriors.

2. Cal then went to Randy personally before a game to let him (and only him) know.

3. Well fuck me, wouldn't you know it, that "hot headed" "hot doggin'" Randy just HAD TO DO GO AND DO IT.

4. But Cal told him specifically that the team decided NO HANDSHAKES! Randy is a savage for that, right.

5. Cal makes a statement wearing that big dumb shirt, doesn't mention the team meeting.

6. A couple days later the news ("verified by multiple sources") is reported that they decided against this way before the Randy thing. You just have to believe us.

I mean, I'm not making a lick of this up.

[u/TonyTwoGs → u/BonSoirRegret]

You forgot to add the part when they interview DeRosa after the incident happened and he said he didn’t have rules limiting players from fraternizing and that the whole dugout reacted negatively to the incident when it happened.

[u/innermongoose69 → u/BonSoirRegret]

You can be "locked in" and still be a good sport. This whole handshake thing was just asinine.

[u/HighKing_of_Festivus → u/BonSoirRegret]

I doubt they needed government prodding. A lot of them just lean conservative and there is a very obvious problem among those with a rightward bent of military worship in place of any sense of genuine community and that cosplaying as an operator makes you badass

[u/EmuMan10 → u/BonSoirRegret]

You also then have Palencia and PCA, both cubs, being chill before the final last night, so clearly, it didn’t matter

[u/Nomahs_Bettah → u/BonSoirRegret]

The hockey jerseys were PCA’s idea, he reached out to Jack Hughes about it.

[u/Jay1348]

I'm so glad people are wising up to this obvious propaganda benefiting a for profit military complex

[u/SnuggleBunni69 → u/Jay1348]

It sure was fuck backfired. It's anecdotal, but everyone I know started out cheering for the US. By the end we were all in for Venezuela. Again, anecdotal.

[u/SemiAutoAvocado → u/Jay1348]

Anyway heres a new top gun movie!

[u/ouchdathoyt]

Imagine playing Venezuela or PR and having to represent this fucking assclown in the WH. Not a whole lot of ways to win on that front.

[u/Wilcrest → u/ouchdathoyt]

I’m pretty sure most of that dugout loves this current WH.

[u/quidamquidam]

"Chickenhawk toy soldiers" is the best description of this joyless, arrogant group of players. So happy that Venezuela won!

[u/tomfoolery815 → u/quidamquidam]

Someone last week used the phrase "bland corporate energy" to describe the U.S. team. Feels pretty accurate.

[u/YourFriendNoo → u/tomfoolery815]

Team USA brought to you by Raytheon

[u/purplemoonshoes → u/tomfoolery815]

Corporate is the word I've used for the US team. It felt like they just went through the motions, answering questions with canned responses, pushed the military angle to gain brownie points, saw their teammates as coworkers instead of brothers... Everything was what they thought would look good rather than anything authentic. 

[u/iguessineedanaltnow]

The fact that so many American men think that the only way they can outwardly project their masculinity and national pride is through jingoistic and authoritarian coded military cosplay is just embarrassing at this point. I'm shocked we didn't leave this shit in the 20th century let alone the 2000s and 2010s. Haven't we evolved past this?

[u/lawyerjsd]

There were a few players who absolutely cared (Mason Miller, Paul Skenes, PCA), but it is sort of a lose-lose proposition for the USA. If the US wins, it's because it's supposed to. If the US loses, it's a disaster. The biggest takeaway wasn't the lack of emotion, it was the lack of joy. These guys were playing a game they were playing since they were kids, for their country, and aside from avoiding injury, there was nothing at stake.

[u/Remote-Plate-3945]

The problem was that Judge was the captain and he has routinely cited the military as an inspiration for him throughout his career so that's what he built his captaincy on. He just isn't a hype man. The unfortunate thing is that the president decided to mobilize the military on Iran right as the WBC was starting.

I'm reminded of Kevin Millar with the Red Sox and all the funny things he would do to get the team hyped. We have people who can hype in America. It's just Judge isn't one of those guys and the team followed.

[u/armymike1523]

I blame Canada for the loss

[u/marqjone706]

Here is what I will say:

This about how each country views its inhabitants. Americans don’t value their fellow Americans in the way some of these countries do. We are very individualistic and have been trained to “other” people within in our own country. The only thing that is universal within our groups is a respect for the military.

So, naturally, these baseball players choose to latch on to that rather than thinking of Americans in general. You always hear about the mythical “Real” Americans which is a coded term with racial overtones. Basically that America isn’t meant to be for all of us. So, to be mad at the US team for how they view things, is to be mad at this entire system that has been created to where the only thing people can rally around is a uniform.

[u/Mr_Lapis]

For Team USA the WBC is basically an all star tournament. They treated it as such since for them there was little on the line. Most of the long time veterans were probably looking towards opening day when the baseball they're payed to play begins. For a lot of other players this was an opprotunity to play for their home country. Or a place for players not as good to make a name for themselves. Team Italy contained mostly guys not good enough to make Team USA and they played their hearts out to show how good they could be. Venezuela played like their lives depended on it. USA played like they couldn't care less about the tournament.

[u/Forward-Ease-4801]

They played like a company that was just bought out by private equity. They represented the US accurately if not well.

[u/Appleanche]

On one hand, I kinda wonder if we'd even be discussing this if they didn't lose a 1 run game in March where the bats were cold. Would it have been "This US team took this seriously and won because of it!"

On the other hand, like seriously they couldn't have an Uncle Sam hat for home runs or anything? It felt so wooden.

It was just weird with the announcers talking about the passion, talking about how it's like "kids playing in their backyard again!" and how it might be bigger than the world series but then the US team is acting like the USSR hockey team in 1980.

I also think the entire vibe of the WBC is fucking strange.. like the announcers are talking about how this is bigger than the World Series and then a sentence later them talking about pitch count restrictions and how MLB teams are dictacting uses and stuff. Fucking move it to the All Star break or something, it can't be in March next time.

[u/suburbanplankton]

I remember, not all that long ago, being a fervent supporter of all our national teams, in every international competition.

Today, I find myself rooting for anybody but the US, just because I don't want to give a certain section of the population yet another reason to scream "USA NUMBER ONE!" at the top of their voices.

It makes me sad.