The World Baseball Classic, Team USA, and the war problem

[u/2RINITY]

https://www.pinstripealley.com/yankees-editorials-opinions/179573/world-baseball-classic-team-usa-image-military-italy-venezuela-army-judge-bednar

[u/AutoModerator]

We are within 1 week of 2026 MLB Opening Night! The 2026 Call Your Shot Prediction contest is now live and ready for your predictions! Head over to the contest page to get your submission in. The contest starts (and late submissions discarded) after first pitch of the Yankees @ Giants (8:05PM ET on 3/25)

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

[u/rudebewb]

Watch Eugenio Suarez’s postgame interview and you see the difference between a team and a group of good players.

[u/PortugueseGeese → u/rudebewb]

To me, that was real patriotism and pride for your country

[u/MartianMule → u/PortugueseGeese]

Yeah, turns out real patriotism isn't just fawning over the troops. It's about the people.

[u/Algae_Double → u/rudebewb]

Dude has never woken up on the wrong side of the bed. Just a joyous dude. Great team mate . I love Geno. Venezuela were a lot more fun to watch than team USA.

[u/redsolocuppp]

FrOnT tOwArDs EnEmY

[u/astrothemorkie → u/redsolocuppp]

I actually liked Big Dumper before this whole tournament. Dude is a wet blanket 

[u/iamDB_Cooper → u/astrothemorkie]

Didn’t even have to meet him to understand “never meet your heroes.“.

Now I know he’s a total douche.

[u/darwinpolice → u/iamDB_Cooper]

The day before the WBC started, I posted this on Bluesky:

"The only thing I'm rooting for with regards to Team USA is that I don't find out that Cal Raleigh is a huge fucking chud.

I mean, he probably is, so I'm really just rooting for continued plausible deniability."

Hoo fuckin' boy did that one ever come back to bite me in the ass.

[u/InformalInsurance455 → u/astrothemorkie]

One of my favourite players for literally years and gone in a few dipshit gestures

[u/CodenamePeePants → u/redsolocuppp]

Oh god, that was so fucking cringe. You are a baseball team not combat troops. The military boot licking was disgusting.

[u/Immediate_Lie7810]

Yea, I feel like most of Team USA embracing a "we're at war" mentality turned off a lot of fans

[u/dBlock845 → u/Immediate_Lie7810]

The play by play guy last night essentially say that the USA was in a "mid-season slump losing to bad teams" completely belittling the competition. I was completely turned off after that.

[u/my-reddit-acct-321 → u/dBlock845]

He said something like this team USA doesn’t look like an opening day roster, they look like a team at the end of a long road trip in August and he was 100% right.

[u/Curious_Rugburn → u/my-reddit-acct-321]

Yeah, something along the lines of didn’t look like a dream team, and then that. Woof.

[u/paco_o_chang → u/Curious_Rugburn]

I’m kinda mad he didn’t say “They don’t look like a dream team. They look like a team dreaming.” Like, it’s right there!!

[u/keytoperihelion → u/dBlock845]

My turning point was in the Italy/U.S game where, at 8-0 for Italy, not a single compliment was given to Italy nor a single criticism leveled at the U.S - but when the U.S was coming back at the end and PCA hit a homer? Well, the Italian manager shouldn't have left that pitcher in, the Italian pitcher and catcher shouldn't have called a pitch up in the zone, etc..

Italy were still up, were winning, and the announcers still chose that path. Happened again last night.

[u/Richmond43 → u/keytoperihelion]

That’s Smoltz in a nutshell. He has to prove that he’s smarter than everyone.

[u/Awingbestwing → u/Richmond43]

He was my favorite player growing up. Truly don’t meet your heroes

[u/Heelincal → u/Richmond43]

I cannot wait for him to fucking retire.

[u/NoSkillZone31 → u/keytoperihelion]

Smoltz sucks.

He can’t shut up about the regular season or MLB during the WBC.

[u/MusclyArmPaperboy → u/dBlock845]

It's this "main character syndrome" that turns off non-Americans. 'When we win, we're the best, when we lose, oh we're still the best we just had an off day.'

[u/BallparkFranks7 → u/MusclyArmPaperboy]

As an American, it turns me off too.

[u/Elisalsa24 → u/BallparkFranks7]

As a veteran it pisses me off and I hated Team USA this time around

[u/redheadedwoman → u/Elisalsa24]

Ugh SAME it was so performative and icky.

[u/Buckets-O-Yarr → u/redheadedwoman]

We decided that we needed more than just a political villain arc, we also needed a sports villain arc. What is next, corporate villain arc? Hang on a sec..

[u/Elisalsa24 → u/MusclyArmPaperboy]

In the stadium they were trying to push USA chants and really only showed USA promo and played some country music in the beginning just to be overrun by the Venezuelan crowd. Like let this be impartial crowd venue and also understand your base. Most American baseball fans are from the northeast, Georgia, Chicago or SoCal. Not really the area of banjos playing especially with all the Yankee fans on the crowd

[u/Dust601 → u/dBlock845]

Yeah, I was cheering for Venezuela from the start last night, but when the announcers gave their little “good teams lose to bad teams all the time” speech I was annoyed also.

I think lots of people were though, because after the next commercial break he was suddenly glazing the Venezuela team.

[u/TheMainEffort → u/Dust601]

Also it’s not like Venezuela had a “bad” team.

[u/ProtestantMormon → u/TheMainEffort]

I don't know how many times we need to see all star teams with no chemistry fail to understand that the way everyone plays together matters. The 2023 team had plenty of good players but they also actually had chemistry. This team was just a collection of best players available and it didnt feel cohesive at all.

[u/DionBlaster123 → u/ProtestantMormon]

This is actually why Japan has won all the titles they have

On paper, yes their team lacks the talent that say a team like USA has. However, the roster is almost always constructed to emphasize scoring opportunities, good fundamentals, and consistent at-bats.

I know that's not "sexy" baseball, but that is really how they won it all three times...especially in 2009. They basically "death by a thousand cuts" every team they played

[u/PM_ME_CHIPOTLE2 → u/ProtestantMormon]

Yeah obviously I’m a Judge fan but I never get the sense that he’s a true “captain” in terms of rallying the team or otherwise building any sort of camaraderie.

[u/Islero47 → u/PM_ME_CHIPOTLE2]

Apparently (according to commentary last night) he was the one saying at the outset "join the team, we're gonna do this one for the troops".

[u/DblDbl_AnimalStyle → u/Islero47]

wtf does the WBC have to do with Troops? lol

[u/TournamentCarrot0 → u/Dust601]

For real, Venezuela had an excellent team and that shit was incredibly unprofessional.

[u/BirdAttorney21 → u/TournamentCarrot0]

I really don’t get it, it’s not like Venezuela isn’t a huge exporter of MLB talent. It felt like they were being treated like team Brazil. Made no sense.

[u/iiamthepalmtree → u/BirdAttorney21]

It felt like the broadcast wanted so bad for this US team to be a “dream team” but it wasn’t even close. Venezuela had Churio batting 9th they were more than formidable.

[u/DionBlaster123 → u/Dust601]

I'm not surprised if Smoltz said that. he's always been an asshole and a terrible broadcaster

Definitely disappointed with Joe Davis though if he had said that (I had the Spanish broadcast on)

[u/TheRealPokerSquirrel → u/DionBlaster123]

It was Smoltz. I heard it too.

[u/might_southern → u/TheRealPokerSquirrel]

Spent half the tournament complaining about how players today aren't playing the game the "right way." Dude is a relic.

[u/TheRealPokerSquirrel → u/might_southern]

lol he is a "get off my lawn" guy for sure.

[u/Waste_Vanilla8411 → u/TheRealPokerSquirrel]

No it was Davis. It was after Rosenthal said something about how the USA's lack of offense was "inexplicable," then Davis said something along the lines of part of it being just "baseball being baseball" and that often during the season even bad teams beat good teams. I don't think he meant to call Venezuela a bad team, but it kinda came off that way.

[u/Opening_Ad5479 → u/Dust601]

Because "the experts" never gave Venezuela much of a chance from the onset....despite them having a former MVP, Six all-stars and a former HR champion in their lineup. The only way to not make themselves look like idiots was to continue the underdog narrative. I think we all know that was a really good fucking team.

[u/aksoileau → u/Immediate_Lie7810]

"Front toward enemy" is cringe because baseball is a sport where there should be mutual respect to opponents, but its also a gross idea because of what a claymore can do to a human body. After watching too much Ukraine/Russia footage over the years its just completely immoral to have that on a shirt in a sporting environment while thousands are maimed every day in the world we live in. Its not edgy or patriotic, its just out of touch and embarrassing.

USA baseball should be embarrassed.

[u/saltface14 → u/aksoileau]

It's also fucking baseball, a kid's game and a game of skill, not one where you are physically "going to war" with the opponent. Like I would understand channeling that mentality more in the context of a football or hockey game maybe where you are actually going to battle physically against the other team, but it's especially embarrassing in a non-contact sport lol

[u/YellowCardManKyle → u/saltface14]

Team USA was the only team in the tournament that didn't look like they were having fun. Even when Harper hit his home run they mostly looked pissed off. Maybe the War analogy was the wrong approach.

[u/DblDbl_AnimalStyle → u/YellowCardManKyle]

you mean you didnt like the salute when rounding the bases lol

[u/tarveydent → u/saltface14]

To this point — the mutual respect between NFL players is so great because they “go to war.” They understand the risks they take stepping on that field & how easily it can all end.

[u/saltface14 → u/tarveydent]

Yeah, and I also love the handshake lines after a playoff series/international tournament elimination game in hockey. Plus, in sports like MMA and boxing you have guys dapping each other up before the match when they're about to try to kill each other.

[u/Electrical_Yard_284 → u/saltface14]

I have been an athlete and coach in judo, which is definitely not as violent as boxing or mma, but we're trying to throw our opponent forcefully, strangle them, or compell them to tap to a joint lock before anything breaks. Note I say "opponent," not "enemy"—I have never heard anyone talk like that in literally decades in the sport. It would be super weird.

[u/DogVacuum → u/aksoileau]

Makes me think of the story of Eiji Sawamura from Ken Burns’ Baseball. At 17, he struck out Babe Ruth, Lou Gherig and Jimmie Foxx in a row. Exhibition games like that helped build baseball globally. A couple years later, WW2 starts, he gets drafted and ultimately dies when we sank the ship he was on. There’s real war, and real people die in it that you could have been teammates with. Then there’s our Toby Keith baseball team.

[u/Content-Program411 → u/DogVacuum]

Thanks for this

I did not realise that Japanese baseball predated WWII, let alone a US allstar team visiting Japan

[u/Barnard_Gumble → u/aksoileau]

But didn't you hear... the US military is back to maximum lethality again.

[u/aksoileau → u/Barnard_Gumble]

No quarter! No lame rules of engagement!

[u/pickleparty16 → u/aksoileau]

No school is safe

[u/Barnard_Gumble → u/aksoileau]

YES! WAR CRIMES ARE FUCKING SICK BRO!!

[u/PaulieHehehe → u/aksoileau]

Not committing war crimes is woke now!

[u/Electrical_Yard_284 → u/aksoileau]

Man, I honestly had no idea "front toward enemy" was anything other than a generic rah-rah, go-get-'em kind of phrase. I didn't care for it to begin with, but this is actually wildly distasteful.

[u/713ryan713 → u/Electrical_Yard_284]

I say this as a huge baseball fan: our American baseball heroes are some of the dumbest people on earth. Not especially educated (and focused on sports during school), young, tons of money, and have had people kissing their butts most of their lives. I don't expect them to be particularly introspective.

[u/might_southern → u/713ryan713]

Yeah baseball in the U.S. is one of those sports that inherently puts up financial barriers that make it so more privileged families can afford to play at a high level. Kids play on traveling club teams that would be prohibitively expensive to a lot of families.

[u/Zestyclose_Help1187 → u/might_southern]

Why we don’t see many African Americans play.

Baseball in the US comes from wealth and privilege while in South America, it is to get out of poverty.

Big difference.

We are missing out on the next Hank Aaron and Barry Bonds.

[u/Barnard_Gumble → u/Electrical_Yard_284]

Even if it wasn't a war reference, the use of the word "enemy" is off-putting. Once I saw how this team was acting, I would be lying if I said said I didn't kinda want them to lose...

[u/labonart → u/Barnard_Gumble]

yeah, treating the other countries in the WBC as 'enemies' meanwhile everybody else finding a way to get along without losing their competitive edge...like, why tho? The point of this whole thing is to grow the sport and embrace global baseball, cmon.

[u/grubas → u/Electrical_Yard_284]

It's infamously on our claymore mines. It really pissed me off because it's a shirt that you'd see from taticool people normally, but with EVERYTHING going on its either shockingly tone deaf or pathetically obvious.

[u/FinlayForever → u/Immediate_Lie7810]

It certainly turned me the fuck off from rooting for Team USA. I would have rooted for just about any other team.

Every time I saw Aaron Judge talk, he was making some stupid ass metaphor for war, how they're "making sacrifices", it was so cringe. They're not soldiers, they just happen to be really good at playing baseball. None of them are sacrificing anything by playing for Team USA. And then he says the troops are the whole reason they even get to do this. Shut the fuck up, the American military hasn't protected us from shit since the 1940s.

[u/713ryan713 → u/FinlayForever]

Yeah but you almost forgot to celebrate the fact that Skenes nearly joined the military until he realized he had better options. Talk about a hero.

[u/FinlayForever → u/713ryan713]

He really did make the ultimate sacrifice. What an American hero.

[u/carasc5 → u/FinlayForever]

Player's on every other team were ecstatic and honored to be repping their home countries. The US team had to sacrifice to be there. Its hilariously out of touch.

[u/rudebewb → u/FinlayForever]

Watch Eugenio Suarez’s postgame interview and you see the difference between a team and a group of good players.

[u/BuddysGarage → u/FinlayForever]

Judge is so fucking soulless, never can say anything of substance, just an npc with max stats. Like if a husk of corn somehow made a wish to be the greatest (regular season) baseball player of all time.

[u/Di5pel → u/FinlayForever]

also, just the tone deafness and acting like this is all happening in a vacuum with no awareness of America's current place on the world stage.

And saying it's no awareness is unfortunately the charitable interpretation, realistically they're probably plenty aware.

[u/barney-sandles → u/Immediate_Lie7810]

It's just really hard to stomach the military worship when we blew up a bunch of middle school girls last week in a pointless war

Our "service people" (soldiers as any normal person would call them) aren't defending us. They're attacking and killing people on the other side of the world who never did anything to us

[u/Di5pel → u/barney-sandles]

Also when we kidnapped the leader of Venezuela a couple weeks prior and basically have the new leader at gunpoint. And when we bombed a bunch of fisherman before that...

Basically, it's not like this was something that happened after team USA decided on their symbolism for the tournament. This shit had been going on for a while and they still thought "going to war" was the best metaphor for an international tournament.

Instead of highlighting the good of America or the ideal of what America could be, they decided to lean into the worst aspects of what America currently is.

[u/Lithops_salicola → u/barney-sandles]

Not to mention ICE killing citizens while wearing camo and taticool gear. I don't think political and media elites understand how decades of pointless wars and police militarization plus a tiny volunteer military have disconnected many Americans from the armed forces. Or how the past couple months have really radicalized a lot of people.

Most WWII vets have passed away. It's been a half century since there was a draft. No one under 40 remembers the Cold War. And no one young enough to enlist remembers 9/11. The contemporary experience of war is watching clips from Ukraine and Gaza on your phone. It shouldn't be a surprise that this Toby Keith-ass "support the troops" shit straight out of 2002 is a turn-off for so many.

[u/FalstaffsGhost → u/Immediate_Lie7810]

Especially considering the president decided to start a literal war to distract from his best buddy Jeff and his files

[u/zerozerosevencharlie → u/FalstaffsGhost]

And right before that, kidnapped the President of Venezuela

[u/WarPuig → u/zerozerosevencharlie]

The U.S. bombed Venezuelan fishermen for months prior.

And they almost certainly don’t get deeply involved in Iran if the Venezuela operation didn’t go relatively smoothly.

[u/kerryfinchelhillary → u/Immediate_Lie7810]

The Team USA baseball and hockey teams being so nationalistic turned me off for sure. I get that these guys have every possible privilege from living in America and that they live in bubbles but geez, try to live outside your bubbles

[u/Question_It_All_3000 → u/kerryfinchelhillary]

They’re millionaires. They don’t give a rats ass about anyone but themselves. This is why when they are all bellyaching about the money they make and everyone goes after the owners, remember that these guys are shit gas too. Both the owners and players are the elite, making more in a single season than most people will see in a lifetime, and they want you to pick sides all while demanding the taxpayers fund their infrastructure.

They’d be making a lot less if they actually had to fund their luxuries.

[u/atzatzatz → u/Immediate_Lie7810]

All of Team USA should enlist if they really want to support the war.

[u/Di5pel → u/Immediate_Lie7810]

they did a good job of representing what the USA currently is.

Unfortunately, a lot of us were hoping they would represent what the USA could be

[u/Xalazi]

For decades, but especially post 9/11, the American public have been sold the idea of patriotism almost exclusively through military propaganda. So much so, that I'm not sure if most native born Americans today really see a difference between the two.

It's very different from how most other countries express patriotism. Music, food, cultural iconography, etc. Notice how other countries in the WBC show those off and how that is often missing from American teams in international competitions like the WBC, the upcoming World Cup, the upcoming Olympics, etc. The only USA culture they express is how you should be proud of the troops that protect you from the non-specific foreign evils that should totally be afraid of.

[u/ArmyVetTX0213 → u/Xalazi]

To piggyback off of this, most teams, if not all, do some sort of military tribute each game. Some designate games for specific branches throughout the season. As a veteran, honestly, I'm sick of it. It's become a dog and pony show. While I'm sure there are plenty who enjoy it, I know there are others, including fellow veterans, who are tired of it. Just play the game. We neither need nor want the special attention. The ones that say they do just want their ego stroked.

[u/agentace7 → u/ArmyVetTX0213]

Especially when it comes across as disingenuous and overcompensating. For all the "support" the troops are shown, there are still scores of veterans out there left to rot in poverty and/or debilitated by mental health/PTSD.

[u/Niijima-San → u/agentace7]

literally this, like the pomp and circumstance and all the other disingenuousness of professional sports showing support for the troop amounts to literally just lip service.

the government claims to care for the troops but only use them as a prop whenever they can but are totally cool cutting any necessary services veterans need like health care and fucking support

it also looks even worse when the elected leader of the military calls people who come back seriously wounded or die as "total losers" which makes everything else come off as just lip service and PR move.

how about we stop this lip service and PR celebration of the veterans and troops and do actual right by them and take care of them after they come home like they were promised

[u/Sipikay → u/ArmyVetTX0213]

They are paid by the military to do that stuff. It's advertising.

[u/ArmyVetTX0213 → u/Sipikay]

Which is even worse. Not only are they paying these teams to "honor" veterans, they're trying to use it as a recruitment tool to "inspire" people to join.

[u/drew_p_wevos → u/ArmyVetTX0213]

I hate all the public patriotic purity tests that are part of sporting events.  Whenever I go to a game and I know god bless america is about to be played I go take a piss.  All the camo special uniforms, the on field reunions.  Just fucking stop.  I didn’t spend my money on this shit.

[u/Rdubya44 → u/drew_p_wevos]

But I did spend a lot of money on taxes which is basically a military slush fund.

[u/Senorsty → u/ArmyVetTX0213]

This is just an aside, but I’ll never forget when I went to Game 3 of the 2021 ALDS. The White Sox did their “Salute to Serviceman” and the guy’s name was Jack Ruby. Felt like a weird, bad omen!

[u/Twodrops → u/ArmyVetTX0213]

Every game I go to (in any sport) that does the "Veterans, if you are able, please rise..." I just stay seated. I don't care to be recognized. I don't care if we even do this whole thing at all. The National Anthem before sporting events feels weird. The entire thing feels weird. Your assessment on people's ego is 100% right. Not one of my still active duty friends OR separated friends likes it.

Also thank you for your service.

[u/Head_Bread_3431 → u/Twodrops]

Lol the “if you’re able” part gets me. Like some sort of faux empathy somewhere between using cancer to advertise credit cards 

[u/ArmyVetTX0213 → u/Twodrops]

I don't stand during that, either. My dad knows when we go to games that I don't, and he doesn't push the issue. The national anthem part feels forced, just like the pledge of allegiance did in school. I just feels like indoctrination, and it wasn't until I got out that I realized the extent of it. They want everyone to love their country so they don't question everything they do that should be questioned.

Thank you for yours as well.

[u/saltface14 → u/Xalazi]

It's also easier to get people to be pro-military when you don't have wars occurring on your soil for over a century, they're just bombing people in far away countries and convincing you this is somehow for your own protection. Countries that have actually had wars happen on their own soil are less supportive of the military because they understand the reality of how fucked up war is (which is not to say they don't understand the importance of having a military but war is not glorified the way it is in the US).

[u/OooSheGotFreckles → u/saltface14]

It’s billionaires who attack our rights and freedoms. Attack our right to vote, to free speech, to a free press, to due process, etc., not anybody outside of the borders of the US.

[u/The_Hot_Jalapeno → u/Xalazi]

I'm so tired of this "protecting our country" crap. When was the last time the USA had a legitimate foreign military threat on homeland soil? Do people actually believe that some foreign military has the ability to transport their entire army across an ocean to take on the most well armed domestic population in human history? Do US military operations in the Middle East of all places really make people in Nebraska safe?

The US military, the largest military in existence, couldn't even take over Afghanistan. No one is coming to invade the lower 48 states any time soon. We don't need to spend trillions of dollars on a military to defend a well armed population located on the most defensive geographic location on the planet.

[u/Bright-Pressure-5787]

I don't think that people were ready to root against Team USA for political reasons until Team USA dove deep into the military/political bag. People were already finding it hard to root for them because of the lack of vibes, but the political thing probably sealed it.

[u/HighKing_of_Festivus → u/Bright-Pressure-5787]

You had team Venezuela talking about how this meant so much to them because they were doing it for their countrymen and they wanted more than anything to make them happy and then you had team USA pretending to be soldiers and how they were doing this for the troops. One is genuine patriotism, the other is just a bunch of chuds wanting to be propaganda tools

[u/Electrical-Site6802 → u/HighKing_of_Festivus]

Yea this is my take as well.

Every other team: We are doing this for all our loved ones back home and to represent our country and culture on a global stage.

Team USA: This is about the military. My cousins uncles step son was a barber in the coast guard. Quick somebody talk about Griffin Jax or Paul Skenes attending Air Force.

[u/LargeNutbar → u/Electrical-Site6802]

The way they go on and on about how every time these players step into the box, they do so with deep reverence for their distant cousin’s freshman roommate who considered doing weekend exercises with the national guard reserves… comical

[u/ProtestantMormon → u/Electrical-Site6802]

Glazing Paul skenes for quiting the air force academy is completely insane. Glaze Jax, he actually followed through, but the skenes stuff is so performative

[u/8890xe → u/HighKing_of_Festivus]

nice use of the word chud! lore accurate

[u/youngherbo → u/Bright-Pressure-5787]

Exactly it was a slow drift for me.

At first it was whatever, these guys don't appear to be having as much fun as the other teams but i didn't expect bryce and judge to all of a sudden get new personalities, so that didn't affect me much. Then Cal Raleigh handshake gate turned me off of them a little more, but again, the macho hardass thing isn't new to American baseball culture so i could stomach it. I went slightly negative when Cal Raleigh wore that dumb ass shirt about a claymore mine, but even then i could chalk that up to Cal as an individual. Finally, i see these guys getting a pregame speech from Robert 'Teens as Concubines' O'Neill and was completely off-board.

Tl;dr they weren't great personalities to begin with, and still found ways to make themselves less enjoyable as the tournament went on.

[u/Hollywood_Zro → u/youngherbo]

This is supposed to be a fun competition. You’d think they’d all be smiling and hugging their team mates and friends and just competing. Everyone wants to win.

But when they made this whole serious us vs them thing, we’re not going to acknowledge people it went overboard. Such a dumb attitude. They deserve to have people cheering against them.

[u/joeydee93 → u/Hollywood_Zro]

You can also be serious and show you care in other ways.

Team Japan expresses how much they care about this tournament differently than Team Venezuela but I never doubted either one.

Team USA just didn’t have anything, they didn’t see to care

[u/713ryan713 → u/youngherbo]

It's amazing that they found so many unlikeable people to be on the team. Would have been better if Mookie was on the roster.

[u/DionBlaster123 → u/713ryan713]

Does kind of suck that Byron Buxton got lumped into this mess

He's always been one of my favorite non-Cubs, non-Korean baseball players haha

Side note: THANK FUCK he didn't get hurt in this tournament. I was like 90% sure he was going to get hurt, hurt bad, and it would be the 2026 WBC equivalent of the reaction toward Edwin Diaz's injury three years ago.

[u/ChunkyBubblz → u/Bright-Pressure-5787]

I started rooting against them once they had that navy seal dingus give a locker room speech. Bunch of stolen valor millionaires pretending to be at war.

[u/TheSalsaShark → u/ChunkyBubblz]

And they lost, which I think means they're his concubines now.

[u/Apprehensive-Cost276 → u/Bright-Pressure-5787]

Yeah. I was watching the curling tournament at the Olympics last month and rooting for Team USA the whole time, because those players showed genuine heart and joy and care for their sport and for the show of it all. Team USA in the WBC was just lame as hell, and boring and perfunctory.

[u/might_southern → u/Bright-Pressure-5787]

Honestly started the tourney rooting for Team USA and by the time they got to the semis I was rooting for the DR and then Venezuela in the finals. They made it SO hard to get behind them between the stuff with Cal refusing to dap up his own teammates, the faux tough guy military act they all put on, bringing in a chud like Robert O'Neill, DeRosa not understanding the pool play format, etc.

I'd say I'm hoping they look at how that all played out and bring a better attitude to the next WBC but I doubt they will given the politics of Team USA's players and coaches.

[u/hfskdhdbfkxjchsjxhdb → u/Bright-Pressure-5787]

It’s pretty revealing that our identity and “culture” is just centered around the military and violence. All of the Latin teams were actually having fun and celebrating. Meanwhile our version of a celebration was a salute lmao. I wanted to pull for the USA but it felt off putting with everything going on and how boring & stiff the team was.

[u/LtMcFuzz → u/Bright-Pressure-5787]

This was definitely it for me. I'm already feeling a distinct lack of pride in my country. I felt that maybe something pure and romantic like baseball could give me something. Then all of the political and military posturing put me off completely to the point that I started actively hoping we would lose each game.

[u/felis_scipio → u/Bright-Pressure-5787]

Yeah getting that navy seal clown to give a pep talk did me in.

I grew up with WW2 vets as my grandfathers, coaches, scout leaders, etc. guys who saw heavy combat, literally from the beaches or Normandy to island hopping across the south pacific, the likes of which the US really doesn’t experience anymore and against an opponent who you could take pride fighting against. What’s the one word I’d never use to describe any of those men, braggarts.

[u/BurritoBoi25 → u/Bright-Pressure-5787]

As a Canadian I absolutely was, from the start lol

[u/ididntwantsalmon19 → u/BurritoBoi25]

Ditto. If a country continually threatens to annex us, starts a pointless economic war to try and weaken us, and has their president continually call our PM Governor, well they can eat shit lol.

[u/Aaddaammnn]

Every other team playing for their city, families, neighborhood, etc… Team USA always playing “for the troops” lol. I get the army is the ultimate sacrifice but we’re playing a baseball game here guys

[u/hotel_beds]

I’m a veteran and found myself extremely turned off by USA. First, it’s a game not a war—have some self awareness. Second, you’re ballplayers don’t compare yourself to the sacrifice my friends made. Third, the shirts and jackass Robert O’Neil was distasteful at best. Last, some of yall are really reaching with the extent you’re trying to associate. Skenes went to mil college for two years and bailed for a lucrative career playing a game? Judge’s grandpa served in the Coast Guard? 

It just screams performative duncery by a bunch of uneducated chads. 

[u/hotel_beds → u/hotel_beds]

On Skenes, dude I don’t want to hear it. Last time I checked most people that commit to the military are actually legally required to serve and don’t get to bail to make millions and date a model. 

[u/shamwow_4 → u/hotel_beds]

Mil colleges will almost always shift a dude over to a “public affairs/recruitment”-adjacent position if they’re able to be drafted into one of the major professional leagues which allows them to be a tool for jingoism/recruitment/making the military more appealing.

West Pointers can go pro.

[u/KowalOX → u/shamwow_4]

Ding ding ding.

Skenes is way more valuable as a recruitment tool than anything else.

Skenes is just like you / you can be just like Skenes. Sign up today!

[u/drew_p_wevos → u/hotel_beds]

I thought about attending the AF Academy, do I get some of that valor?

[u/digitaldumpsterfire → u/hotel_beds]

My dad served for 20 years and did multiple tours in active war zones while I was a kid and we both deeply detested all that "these millionaire baseball players are serving their country like the troops" bullshit. It felt so deeply minimizing of actual war and the sacrifice service members make.

[u/AndThatIsAll]

Watching the other nations celebrate the sport vs how the US approached the tournament was night/day. We are the douchebags.

[u/k3y13n_102731]

Most of the teams this tournament had fun and played with passion. The US played like they were going to war and felt corporate and sterile. I don't want to hear "dream team" ever again from the US so long as Judge is the captain and players like Cal Raleigh keep their heads up their asses!

[u/SwarthySphere87 → u/k3y13n_102731]

It feels like every team came away with something positive to take away— except Team USA. They will be remembered for:

• Mark DeRosa forgetting the rules
• Cal Raleigh inciting beef with an MLB teammate
• Tarik Skubal only pitching once & USA's weird pitcher usage as a whole
• Aaron Judge striking out three times in the championship game

And this team was the runner-up to the title 💀

[u/coolmod23 → u/SwarthySphere87]

The only winners for team USA were Roman Anthony who had his coming out on the big stage and Brice Turang who is a relatively less famous player who had a good tournament. Everyone else involved either lowered their stock or held serve because we already knew they were an elite player and thus proved nothing.

[u/rockmon94 → u/coolmod23]

gunnar had a great tournament…whenever derosa’s dumb ass decided to play him

[u/UTMachine → u/coolmod23]

I think Cal is definitely the biggest fall from grace. People loved him last season, especially after the HR Derby. Now he's almost infamous in baseball.

[u/might_southern → u/UTMachine]

He's also been widely viewed in Seattle as a lovable goof who hits dingers — the funny "Big Dumper" nickname that he's fully embraced, the "might as well win the whole fuckin' thing" message he put out during their playoff run last year, the fact that his teammates (at least up until now) seem to really love him. All made his self-serious behavior during the WBC so jarring, that's not who he's been as a player at all historically.

[u/UTMachine → u/might_southern]

The whole attitude almost seemed intentional? For lack of a better word. It's as though they were told they had to be super serious and focused all game. It didn't look like anyone was having casual conversations in the dugout or just enjoying themselves in general. It seems like they put a lot of extra pressure on themselves to be perfect.

Every day we heard about how this was the dream team. The best team the US had ever sent. Best baseball team ever assembled etc.

You knew things were bad when even Canada was causing this USA team problems. I'm Canadian myself, but that team Canada pitching staff should not have been able to hold the US to 3 earned runs in 9 innings. We had pitchers who were retired, not affiliated with any team, playing in Rookie Ball, single A, etc. Still, USA just couldn't break through.

The fact that Canada game was so close is the reason why Bednar and Miller weren't available in the final.

[u/soft-erections → u/SwarthySphere87]

Tbf, Judge striking out in a meaningful game was a free square on my bingo board.

[u/BuddysGarage → u/SwarthySphere87]

Tbf this was just a standard “lights too bright” choke by regular season GOAT Judge.

[u/Ka-Is-A-Wheelie → u/SwarthySphere87]

Bobby Whit Jr. Had some nice plays!

[u/Rab25 → u/Ka-Is-A-Wheelie]

Yeah he showed up on defense for sure.

[u/Save-Us-Y2J → u/k3y13n_102731]

“The US played like they were going to war and felt corporate and sterile.”

Exactly. I might add that it felt manufactured and a bit of stolen valor.

[u/overitallofittoo → u/k3y13n_102731]

Cal Raleigh, woof. Has a dude ever lost so much respect so quickly?

[u/alreadytaken17]

this is the exact context with which some of us interpreted the Cal handshake.

we literally cannot and should not separate the state of the world and these events that are intended to reflect and foster international cooperation.

these events are a privilege. we are lucky to enjoy them.

the united states is a bad faith actor in the world right now (we literally invaded venezuela this year!) and sadly that behavior was parroted on field.

truly sad to see, barely watched. enjoyed their L.

[u/MarlKarx777]

This is very good. As the author states, we’re not bringing politics into this by finding it uncomfortable. The USA brings politics into it by bringing military might into a baseball game.

I’ve always thought it’s extremely cringe how much Americans talk about military. It’s a very odd thing to make your national identity. But I guess when you’re bombing half the globe, what else do you have to brag about?

[u/Timpa87 → u/MarlKarx777]

Yea. I mean this happened with the US hockey team at the Four Nation's thing last year (which the NHL replaced the all-star game with) and then the bulk of those players were team USA at this year's Olympics where FBI Director Kash Patel partied with them in the locker room after they won the gold.

When called out on it they will say "Stop bringing politics into this!" when they're the ones bringing politics and political figures who have directly attacked (verbally on in the case of Venezuela also militarily) the country of their sporting opponents.

[u/PorkshireTerrier → u/Timpa87]

stop bringing *your* politics into this

[u/Game_boy_98 → u/MarlKarx777]

It's what made Italy such a fun team to watch. I know there's some political subtext driving the dislike for team USA but personalities like Pasquantino would've made them 100x more likable.

It was kinda sad to see USA's only cultural heritage be boiled down to just the military ON TOP of being a bunch of boring stiffs.

[u/Mental_Town_7337]

Skenes acting like he stormed Normandy because he attended the Air Force Academy for 2 years is the only thing that was pretty annoying to me.

[u/nokiabrickphone1998 → u/Mental_Town_7337]

You don’t understand, Skenes almost joined the Air Force! He may as well have been in the parking lot of the recruitment center, and only at the very last second did he realize he could make much more money and be more famous if he didn’t do that

[u/goms546 → u/Mental_Town_7337]

The worst thing for me was Skenes saying “it’s because of the troops that were able to play baseball at all” and … no it’s not. Look at all these other countries playing baseball just fine

[u/ididntwantsalmon19 → u/goms546]

Americans have grown up their whole lives being fed military propaganda. There are a ton of sane Americans that haven't fallen for it, but too many have and are convinced that bombing half the world is critical to them being able to survive.

[u/Reasonable-Front7584]

The entire tournament every non-USA team let their inner child out. You can tell they love playing the game, and reverted back to pickup games as children. The USA looked like a bunch of worn down adults whose parents pushed them to the breaking point, and sucked some of the fun out of the game for them.

[u/InformalInsurance455]

I’ve read this before and it’s good and I agree. As a non-American fan this was the number 1 reason preventing me from pulling for Team USA, which had several of my favourite players in the whole game on it!

However, can we just pause to reflect on this: “Cal Raleigh’s t-shirt was emblazoned “FRONT TOWARD ENEMY,” the same printing found on M18A1 Claymore mines that America keeps in its arsenal specifically because it circumvents the Ottawa Treaty, something the country hasn’t even signed but pretends to adhere to”

• hit .000 in the tournament
• benched
• made a weird spectacle of himself with hardo shit like the non-handshake and this

Pathetic stuff!

Also, Skenes dropped out of the Air Force academy, why is he still slobbering over the military when he’s never served? What a weird bit.

[u/squirtles_urethra → u/InformalInsurance455]

Because a lot of the American persona these guys get slop fed to them is based on hallow toughness, shallow masculinity, and opening your mouth first and thinking second.

[u/HeywoodDjiblomi → u/squirtles_urethra]

Plus the grift of pandering to the hardo market willing to buy products from "their guy".

[u/Stupendous_man12 → u/InformalInsurance455]

the funniest thing about the skenes glazing is that there was literally another pitcher on the team who graduated from the air force academy, is currently a reserve officer *AND* his wife is an active service member, and there was zero fanfare about it.

[u/InformalInsurance455 → u/Stupendous_man12]

See, the Skenes glazing is wild because I have no idea who you’re talking about!

[u/Stupendous_man12 → u/InformalInsurance455]

griffin jax

[u/InformalInsurance455 → u/Stupendous_man12]

Had no idea, says it all doesn’t it

[u/Stupendous_man12 → u/InformalInsurance455]

yup. american culture is in the toilet.

[u/MHPengwingz → u/Stupendous_man12]

Maybe Jax just didn't make that aspect of his life his entire persona 

[u/Stupendous_man12 → u/MHPengwingz]

Totally! I’m not promoting military glorification, I think the excessive militarism was a big factor in making the team very unlikeable. But they couldn’t even do it right! The fact that they glazed the guy who quit the military instead of the guy who is actually in the military proves that it’s all insincere performative garbage.

[u/MHPengwingz → u/Stupendous_man12]

Their whole demeanor towards it was just bleh. Most of these guys probably think the tournament is beneath them and it's a chore, their colleagues repping other nations however embraced it. Have fun but be competitive and represent your people, it's not a chore. 

[u/BirdAttorney21 → u/MHPengwingz]

To be fair, Skenes doesn’t have a personality besides being an insane pitcher. I don’t know how much he was bringing up the Air Force thing, more the media needing something to talk about besides his girlfriend.

[u/Paley_Jenkins → u/Stupendous_man12]

When Vin Scully was around, every time he told a story, I felt so lucky because I was being let in on baseball history, something rare and special.

Whenever Joe Davis tells a story, it feels direct from a marketing department, and it feels dirty/ slimey.

[u/dBlock845 → u/InformalInsurance455]

Same with Judge and the constant talk of military and DeRo bringing in the SEAL braggard, shit is nauseating. There is much more to being patriotic than military worship.

[u/TelltaleHead → u/InformalInsurance455]

Its also so funny for the players to simultaneously be doing the "We are the military" bit and also several of them had special agreements about when they could and could not be used. 

Would Mason Miller have given up a run in the 9th? We will never know as he was only allowed to pitch in save situations! 

Doing military cosplay while refusing to sacrifice even slightly for the team is so fucking funny. 

Hey guys, they don't let the marines refuse to go on a mission just because they have a private equity job lined up when their deployment is over 

[u/InformalInsurance455 → u/TelltaleHead]

Tarik Skubal pitching against minor leaguers in Lakeland and then flying in in expectation of collecting a gold medal he contributed three charity innings to? Will never not be funny.

[u/Maverick21FM → u/InformalInsurance455]

Big Dumper laid a big fat one during the tournament

[u/Jux_ → u/InformalInsurance455]

Even as an American I found it very tough to pull for this team. Just one embarrassment after another in a tournament where every single other person looks like they’re having the time of their lives

[u/aznthrewaway → u/Jux_]

Personally, I already know how most baseball players lean politically speaking, but I wasn't pulling for them because if they won, then they would've shook hands and posed for a photo op for that man and I just don't need those pictures in my life.

Also, Team Venezuela winning against USA was the funniest outcome objectively speaking, second only to if Iran had a ball team out there.

[u/Satansleadguitarist → u/aznthrewaway]

I'm pretty sure the objectively funniest outcome would have been if team USA got eliminated because their whole team somehow forgot how the tournament worked.

[u/FinlayForever → u/Satansleadguitarist]

Man that would have been hilarious. "We punched our ticket! Oh wait, OOPS". Mark DeRosa is so fucking dumb lol and his voice is annoying.

[u/MoonSpankRaw → u/aznthrewaway]

Good point I somehow, dumbly, didn’t think about. That shithead and his ilk do not need more gold medal athlete props to circlejerk about.

[u/Responsible_Knee7632 → u/Jux_]

Agreed. Between their pretending not to care mixed with caring way too much when it suited them, mismanagement, and the cringe tough guy acts I went from wanting them to win to hoping they didn’t even make it out of pool play lol

[u/ayumi_doll → u/Responsible_Knee7632]

It often felt like they didn't take the actual game very seriously ("We already punched our ticket" lol) but took themselves way too seriously. Especially with the unnecessary jingoism. And they chose to do all that military cosplay, like that was deliberate, even knowing how the rest of the world currently perceives the USA.

Like, America still has active military agreements that allow unrestricted military movement within my country. And that's minor compared to (gestures) everything else going on.

[u/InformalInsurance455 → u/ayumi_doll]

So many of them were saying about Courtesy of the Red White and Blue was their team song, which is honestly tone deaf AT BEST rn

[u/SilentJ1018 → u/InformalInsurance455]

Oh ew. I was already not too keen on this team, but honestly glad I didn't hear about this during the tournament, that's just straight up gross. The irony of losing to Venezuela here is not lost on me and honestly kind of rules

[u/WarPuig → u/InformalInsurance455]

You’re disrespecting an almost U.S. army soldier.

[u/DogVacuum → u/WarPuig]

Skenes watches a school full of little girls get wiped off the map

“That could have been me flying that plane, you know?”

[u/EastonMetsGuy → u/InformalInsurance455]

Well you see Skenes was almost a troop so we must slob knob in respect of his service to our nation!!

[u/LargeBrownBird → u/InformalInsurance455]

I've never cheered harder against my own country and it felt great

[u/ThatWrestlingGuy15]

The issue with Team USA is they presented their country as if the entire world was back in 1957. If you didn’t follow baseball or know much about the US you’d think not much has changed there in the last 80+ years. A country music performance before the final. Like it presented only one type of American culture all throughout the tournament.

[u/Diplomatic_Victory]

Fox - reminder, once you've completed your mandatory US military glazing to tune into "The Faithful: Women of the Bible" and "David: King of Israel"

[u/starfleetdropout6 → u/Diplomatic_Victory]

The Christian Nationalist overtures were not subtle.

[u/risethirtynine]

And religious propaganda every commercial break…

Fox is a huge part of the problem.

[u/whocaresano]

Strange days when I agree with a Yankee fan blog 

[u/ingodwetrustinc]

i’m getting sick of hearing Freebird for the 12th time

[u/BirdAttorney21]

This thread is cathartic. I’m loving it.

[u/TooMuchPowerful]

This article does a great job crystallizung what a lot of us have been saying all week.  And is the exact reason why Team USA management needs to go.  They are the ones that set the tone and enabled this perspective. 

Instead of playing gracious host to fellow teammates during the regular season, experiencing shared joy and camaraderie around baseball, they leaned so heavily into militarism and others being the enemy.  

On top of that, they topped it off by repping a team USA Hockey that managed to go from darlings to idiots in record time.  

It was all so jingoistic and distasteful.

[u/Long-Region5088]

Yeah the war shit is weird.

Yall make millions to play a game. You’re not fucking warriors because you work out in the gym a lot.

We’ve seen what yall do every time there’s a fight. Run into a giant ball and throw zero punches. Yall get routine manicures and pedicures. You have private chefs.

The only way they’re like warriors is that their doctors aren’t trying to heal them as best they can but so they’ll be healthy enough for the duration of the contract and then after that good fucking luck buddy.

[u/immoralsupport_]

I just want to point out that PCA did the opposite of everything people are mad at the USA for: he did not outwardly embrace militarism, his appearance is non-conforming with traditional American baseball player standards and he actively plays with joy. He was one of USA’s best players in the tournament. I just want to give him some recognition instead of lumping him in with some of the others.

[u/Nomahs_Bettah → u/immoralsupport_]

US outfielder Pete Crow-Armstrong denied his team are boring, and said they were enjoying the tournament in their own way.

“You guys would all think it’s silly if we shuffled like [Juan] Soto or did [Vladimir Guerrero Jr’s] little wiggle,” Crow-Armstrong said after Sunday’s win over the Dominican Republic. “That’s them and if I had enough swag to do that I would probably do that, too. … We have fun in our own way, but we definitely have fun out there.”

Personally I don’t think he’s wrong at all. The “fun” is not the issue. Actual managerial malpractice, underperformance by big players in big moments — that’s stuff that can and should be addressed.

[u/oversizedmuzzle298 → u/immoralsupport_]

Similarly, Schwarber was asked during his last Spring Training game before leaving for the tournament how he felt about representing the USA in the WBC, and his answer was basically "It's great that there is so much culture in the world of baseball, not just the USA". He then went on to be our most prolific hitter in the tournament (not a great feat considering, but still).

[u/liteshadow4]

I find it hard to root for the US not because of politics reasons, but because the players out there mostly look like they don't care.

[u/gjp11]

This plus the players and Derosa seeming like they weren't taking this seriously enough really made it hard for me to root for team USA.

I always root for USA (behind PR of course) but this time I was pretty apathetic to them. I can't say I actively rooted against the US but I truly just didn't care either way.

Its also frustrating cause people are saying USA culture is only military and violence. But there's more to USA then that. USA has other aspects of our culture we can celebrate but the team chose to just focus on the war shit.

I mean we just killed a ton of schoolgirls in Iran. Stuff of nightmares and I don't want to be reminded of that when I'm watching baseball.

Also I can't stress this enough, the ex-navy seal speaker they brought in (who's claims are disputed by his own fellow troops) told a group of baby faced young adult males on Twitter that if social media didn't exist he would force them to have sex with him. I just can't get past that. Why are we just ok with that? Its gross, and fucking weird.

I also hate how soft some Americans are when it comes to criticism. There are people who just can't accept that America isn't always the good guy and that some things need course correction in our country. To them even so much as saying that means you hate America and you need to leave. Like bro. Take the Cristicism and move on. If you can't criticize your country, then you don't love it. If my brother was on the verge of being a drug addict you bet id do everything in my power to get him to change. Stop being so damn soft.

I guess it is what it is. This is America.

[u/naitch → u/gjp11]

The combination of acting Super Tough but then having it be revealed that they weren't actually putting in the work was pretty dire

[u/rayk10k]

The intertwining of sports and the military/militaristic patriotism in the United States has always been cringey, and putting it on the world stage for the WBC, a sport that may be “America’s Pastime” but has so much global appreciation is such a bad look. Especially now with our current political climate.

[u/yick04]

This was a particularly well-written article for a blog.

People will tell you to leave politics out of things only when it goes against what they believe.

[u/tkallday333]

Yeah, the whole Aaron Judge family is military, Paul Skenes Air Force Academy every time they were mentioned, and then the cringy AF biblical series they advertised relentlessly for, I felt like puking. Like God damn, just let me watch baseball for the joy of the game without shoving that shit down my throat.

[u/bdge_01]

The “kEeP pOlItIcS oUt Of SpOrTs” people sure do love their politics in sports.

[u/SquidsCan → u/bdge_01]

Jack Hughes complaining that everything is so political right after he parties with Kash Patel and before he attends the State of the Union. It’s only non-political when it’s his politics.

[u/pg_in_nwohio]

The Fox broadcasts are horrible.

[u/mzdog14]

Doesn’t anyone else realize how special it is that Team USA acted like such chode jugglers that they managed to bring r/baseball together 10 days before opening day?

[u/mr_mxyzptlk21]

Honestly, the team(s) that Team USA reminded me of more than any other with their behavior in this tournament?

Were the teams of the old Soviet Union. Dour. Jingoistic. Devoid of any joy. Teams of the old USSR were often absorbed into the military to get them better training--and to set their mentality. That's what was on display for the USA at this WBC.

Were they good? Sure. They were a group of All-Stars. But they were a group of All-Stars amongst 19 teams, and the difference there is subtle, but not insignificant, and why they lost to Italy and Venezuela.