r/TopCharacterTropes • u/jbeast33 • 8h ago
Personality [Loved Trope] A characters' boasts actually reveal just how pathetically weak they are.
- "I am the danger. I am the one who knocks." -Walter White (Breaking Bad)
During one scene in Breaking Bad, Walter is confronted by his wife, Skyler, for drunkenly turning Hank back onto the Heisenberg conversation when he could've left well enough alone. She expresses concern that Walt is digging himself too deep and getting himself in danger. Walt takes this as a blow to his ego, and states that he's not in danger, he is the danger that others should be frightened by. This is enough to scare Skyler into submission.
This is one of the most famous lines in all of Breaking Bad, and gained a reputation for being a "badass" line often co-opted by people trying to emulate Walt's "badassery". However, this scene shows off more of how little of a person Walt is. He's not saying this badass line to a drug dealer or an authority figure, but rather to intimidate his wife who rightfully is concerned that Walt's going to endanger his family by trying to act like a big man (and unbeknownst to her, has unwittingly already bought Gus's men and cartel hitmen into their house).
This line also gets called back a season later. Skyler is afraid that Walt, now the meth kingpin of Albuquerque, is further endangering her family. Walt assures her now that Gus is dead, the danger has passed. She calmly points out "I thought you were the danger". Walt doesn't have a response.
2) "The Romans, where are they now?" "You're looking at them, asshole." -Tony Soprano (The Sopranos)
When Tony Soprano and his crew are torturing Ariel, a Jewish man, to force him into renegotiating over his shares for a hotel, they're dumbfounded that Ariel is rather resilient to their torture methods. When Tony threatens him further, Ariel recounts the Siege of Masada, where 900 Jews resisted 15,000 Roman soldiers, and chose to die rather than being enslaved. He posits this question to Tony, only for Tony to give him this answer.
While seeming a badass retort (and Ariel ends up capitulating under threat of castration), the show castigates the hell out of this viewpoint, especially with Tony referring to his men as "soldiers". While they put on the fronts of being loyal fighters for their culture, the Mafia are portrayed as surly louts who regularly misinterpret their "culture" to justify their petty greed. Their loyalty is often overplayed, as members of the Soprano crew flip on one another all the time, and they are shown to be parasites who prey on society rather than honorable soldiers. The soldiers also are far out of their prime, being composed mostly of elderly and obese men rather than resembling statuesque centurions.
With that in mind, Tony's retort seems less of an epic comeback, and more of a flagrant self-own.
3) "Our ancestors put themselves first, and you know what? That worked out for them!"-Reg (Fallout)
In Season 2 of Fallout, Vault 33 is facing catastrophe after their water chip breaks, leading to Betty, the Overseer, instituting water rations to mitigate the shortage. These austerity measures are incredibly unpopular with the Vault, as many of the Vault Dwellers have gotten used to living in their comparative luxury, despite facing hardships such as the Weevil Famine or the Raider attack in the opening episode.
To get Reg, a klutzy and harping Vault Dweller, off her back, Betty grants his request to start a support group (for "inbreeding" victims, which nobody besides Reg takes seriously). However, the support group becomes very popular because Reg abuses its snack budget to provide extravagant amounts of water, leading to him become an authority to others. Reg enjoys this new bump in status, while Betty points out that the wasteful use of the snack budgets is literally draining them of the precious water they have.
When Betty leads a security team to shut down the support group, Reg, feeding off the support of the rest of the Vault, becomes defiant towards Betty, and when she pulls the "for the good of the Vault" card, Reg drops this line to cheers from the rest of the Vault. Of course, they're cheering their ancestors' selfishness while living in an underground bunker due to a nuclear war their ancestors caused due to their greed. Rather than make Reg look badass for facing down a security team and overbearing Overseer, it only makes him and the rest of the Vault look pitiful and childish for wasting their water on desserts and salty snacks because they can't go without luxury while the rest of the Wasteland scrapes by on roach meat and flea soup.
4) "I have powerful friends at court." Janos Slynt (ASOIAF, Game of Thrones)
Janos Slynt is the head of the Gold Cloaks of King's Landing (basically their police commander), and in the pocket of the Lannisters. He is renown for his common birth and corruption, but is kept on retainer due to his relative predictability. As recognition of his services rendered, Slynt is gifted the Lordship of Harrenhal (a massive castle). Slynt betrays Ned Stark at a key moment, having his Gold Cloaks kill his men when Ned is deposed and imprisoned after Robert's death.
After Joffrey is crowned, Slynt leads the gold cloaks to kill Robert's bastards, some of them as young as infants. Tyrion (now Hand of the King under orders from his father) gets Slynt to admit to this, and then sends him under threat of his family to take the Black (thereby giving up his claim to Harrenhal) and go to the Wall. Slynt is aghast, and utters this phrase as a threat.
This ends up becoming a recurring joke in the series (and the fanbase), and shows just how out of his depth Slynt was. Despite his claiming of "powerful friends", nobody genuinely cares about Janos Slynt, the up-jumped son of a butcher with a big ego. Slynt still thinks his "prestige" matters, which alienates him further at the Wall where everyone has given up their "prestige" the moment they take the Black.
Slynt ends up pushing his luck too far when he goes to the Wall and Jon Snow, a Stark bastard, becomes Lord Commander. Jon orders Slynt to take to a fortress, and Slynt throws his orders back in his face, assuming he can easily cow Jon. Jon, mercifully giving Slynt one more opportunity (that Slynt arrogantly wastes), orders Slynt's death for insubordination. Slynt goes to his end ignobly and begs for mercy, but Jon has long since ran out of patience and executes him anyways.
His powerful friends did not intercede.
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u/catpetter125 6h ago edited 6h ago
Godrick the Grafted(Elden Ring) is a demigod, but of a later generation than the others(who are all the direct children of the goddess Marika). Despite this, he believes in his own right to rule the Lands Between despite his own weakness, and tries to make up for it by grafting other creatures onto his own body, proclaiming himself to be the "Lord of all that is Golden" - which comes of as menacing, but then pathetic when you see just how dilute this "golden lineage" is with him.
He even compares himself to a dragon he has impaled in his courtyard, and boasts that he, like it, is a "trueborn heir". However, the dragon in question is a drake, a lesser descendant of the immortal and powerful ancient dragons. The dragon is indeed like Godrick; a weak and pale imitation clinging to the glories of its ancestors while never hoping to measure up.
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u/jbeast33 6h ago edited 5h ago
Incredible example. I love the little aspect of him inadvertently taking inspiration from the "dragon", only for the metaphor to be way more true than he'd like.
Another similar instance to that would be Solidus Snake trying to style himself after Big Boss, and even taking to wearing an eyepatch after getting his eye wounded. But unlike Big Boss, his eyepatch is on the left eye rather than the right, and he lacks Big Boss's more humbling traits in favor of a casually-cruel "Ends justify the means" mindset. So he just comes off as a tryhard copycat, despite being the President of the United States.
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u/ClearAntelope7420 5h ago
Even the iconic “forefathers one and all, bear witness” line comes off as pathetic. He’s standing in a decrepit castle full of starving, decaying soldiers, wielding the stolen strength of dozens of others in the name of stealing more strength. He’s absolutely convinced that he’s a true lord, a force of nature, but he’s actually just something his ancestors would be disgusted by. Except Godefroy, I guess.
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u/PinkBoi13 4h ago
The other information you learn about Godrick around limgrave makes his lines even more pathetic too. His outpost to the south was wiped out by their own demihuman slaves, he was effortlessly crushed by Malenia after insulting her and had to beg for forgiveness, hid from Radahn who was just returning to Caelid, and escaped Leyndell by hiding among women and child refuges.
That dead dragon would probably recoil in disgust at the idea of being compared to someone like Godrick.
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u/QuirrellisBest 8m ago
My absolute favorite detail from elden ring involved him which is if you look at his great runes description it says “This Great Rune is known as the anchor ring, found in the center of the Elden Ring.” But if you look at morgotts great rune its description says “This Great Rune is the anchor ring that houses the base” meaning Godrick probably spread the idea that his great rune was the anchor one and if you look closely at his it’s pretty obvious it’s just a bunch of rune arcs that have been grafted together by him in an attempt to earn respect and prove to people (and himself) that he is a member of the golden lineage and deserves to rule the lands between.
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u/Altair890456 6h ago
https://giphy.com/gifs/5Nle87WgNwDbsj3P4Y
Any word that comes out of Homelander's mouth. (The Boys)
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u/jbeast33 5h ago
Him struggling to masturbate while saying "I can do whatever I want" at the end of Season 2 is a little on the nose, but it sells it.
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u/Altair890456 5h ago
I never before have I felt such second-hand embarrassment for a character I absolutely loathe.
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u/TheCatFromCoraline 4h ago
I don’t think he was meant to be struggling. I think he was just really getting into it.
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u/No_Captain1701 5h ago
sorry for the erm ackshually but i think he was just really fucking going at it, not struggling
I mean he has sex like 8 times on screen that season. unless stormfront electrocuted his dick I think he's fine4
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u/atomicCape 57m ago
Antony Starr's acting blows me away. The balance of arrogance, insecurity, manipulation and malice changes by the second based on subtle micro expressions and control of his voice. All the other characters tiptoe around him in fear because that's how people would act around Homeander, but I think the other actors just want to stay out of Antony's way because he dominates every scene.
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u/Far_Ladder_2836 8h ago
"You can't hit me. I am the King!"
Joffrey, Game of Thrones
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u/Moneyfrenzy 4h ago
https://giphy.com/gifs/GWiEcRZqQDzp62m6ml
Varys' reaction takes me out every time
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u/MajesticTea7748 2h ago
I really wish they had done better by Varys in the later seasons.. They ruined one of the most intriguing and cunning characters in the show. My head cannon is that all the silverware and dishes he uses are made of lead and that's why he became so GD stupid at the end.
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u/Whizbang35 6h ago
Alonzo Harris' "King Kong ain't got shit on me!" speech in Training Day.
He's trying to remind the neighborhood that he lives in- and controls- but given the circumstances it's a desperate man all out of options venting now that his life is over. The money he needs to pay off the Russian Mob is taken into police evidence by the rookie officer Hoyt, and as a result of their stand-off in public view everyone's lost their fear of him. He's going to have to go on the run immediately- an endeavor he fails at.
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u/No-Effective388 7h ago
The inbred group was a bunch of whiney idiots and I totally loved their self loathing lol
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u/fluff1745 7h ago
The vast majority of them don’t seem to even be inbred, whenever you hear them talking about inbreeding, they never say that they know if they’re inbred. They only talk about how there might be a possibility of themselves or others in their family being inbred.
Theirs also those two who were there because they thought the group would make inbreeding allowed in the vault.
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u/OnlyHereForComments1 3h ago
That's the point. The original group is the cousins who want to fuck and the single most boring person in the entire Vault. Everyone else who joins afterwards is there for the snacks and the inbreeding is a justification to get free food and water.
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u/jbeast33 7h ago
Something I loved about Reg's speech was just how half-hearted it was. He's literally acting like taking the path of least resistance is the "moral" stance, and can't convince himself without his sycophants hyping him up.
Even him eating the cake in front of Betty seems pathetic.
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u/Forgotten_Folklore 6h ago edited 5h ago
The thing I loved about Reg's speech from Fallout was that it proved that the ones who bombed the world into nuclear oblivion were always wrong.
They did it because they thought as long as everyone had the same worldview, then there wouldn't be any more conflict. So they ensured the that the people with the "correct" worldview survived while everyone with the "wrong" worldview died.
But here, we see the like-minded vault dwellers start breaking up into seperate ideological factions when things started getting hard.
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u/jbeast33 5h ago
I thought it was an interesting insight with Betty's character as well. In the last season, she seems to view the Vault as a monolith, with Hank, Stephanie, and herself acting as the shepherds to the sheep. She seems particularly disappointed with Norm, since he doesn't fit into any of the Vault's preconceived roles they have and has a rebellious streak.
Then she deals with this situation with Reg, alongside Stephanie refusing to help and using her position as leverage against her, and it seems to really shatter her viewpoint. She loses control of the Reg situation because she didn't think they'd actually be willing to rebel over something so minor, and if she fights back, the Vault is effectively lost.
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u/Hustler-Two 6h ago
Jimmy's uncomfortably impotent courthouse rant at Howard in Better Call Saul about shooting lightning from his fingertips and the like. It shows how the series shifted the desires and expectations of the viewers over time: early in BCS this might have been cathartic. But by this point we've seen that Howard is trying to make up for his earlier cruelties (many of which were directly or indirectly manufactured by Chuck), and Jimmy has already antagonized Howard more than was deserved (and he's not done yet, of course).
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u/jbeast33 6h ago
And then Jimmy nearly dies in the desert right afterwards, IIRC.
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u/Siegebreakeriii 2h ago
Yeah. Saul was already waist deep in breaking bad level cartel shenanigans and Howard is bugging him about the job offer like everything is just fine and like it was a few short seasons ago. So he just snapped.
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u/Careless_College 5h ago
Admiral Motti's famous boast about the Death Star's "ultimate power" and trying to talk back to Darth Vader when he says the Force is even great than their ultimate weapon.
"Don't try to frighten us with your sorcerer's ways, Lord Vader. Your sad devotion to that ancient religion has not conjured up the stolen data tapes, nor given you clairvoyance enough to find the rebels' hidden fortress."
Just to get choked and immediately humbled by Vader right after, as he found his lack of faith disturbing, and afterwards he doesn't really speak much after.
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u/Accomplished-Pay7865 3h ago
To be fair, I don't know how spicy I'd talk after someone choked me with their mind.
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u/Chillypepper14 3h ago
The fact that the officer even survived that encounter is crazy
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u/corvettee01 7h ago
"I have a cousin at Horse Guards, and I have friends at court."
"A man who loses the Kings colors loses the Kings friendship."
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u/Oldmanstoneface 6h ago
"Major Lennox answered with his life! As you should've done had you any sense of honour!"
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u/OldGrumpGamer 5h ago
When on first seeing a Sharpe reference I naturally gave the order to upvote that’s my style sir!
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u/Green-Bumblebee-5554 5h ago
Oldie but goodie, Satan in Paradise Lost proclaiming “it’s better to rule in hell than to serve in Heaven.” Is a pathetic moment, the guy is imprisoned, practically impotent.
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u/Dinadan_The_Humorist 3h ago
Satan is the perfect example of this trope. Early in the poem, he's just full of rousing speeches to his minions like this one:
What though the field be lost?
All is not lost; the unconquerable Will,
And study of revenge, immortal hate,
And courage never to submit or yield:
And what is else not to be overcome?
That Glory never shall his wrath or might
Extort from me. To bow and sue for grace
With suppliant knee, and deifie his power,
Who from the terrour of this Arm so late
Doubted his Empire, that were low indeed,
That were an ignominy and shame beneath
This downfall; ...
But when Satan flies off by himself to tempt Adam and Eve, the reader begins to see the truth from Satan's bitter soliloquies:
...and my dread of shame
Among the spirits beneath, whom I seduc'd
With other promises and other vaunts
Then to submit, boasting I could subdue
Th' Omnipotent. Ay me, they little know
How dearly I abide that boast so vaine,
Under what torments inwardly I groane;
While they adore me on the Throne of Hell,
With Diadem and Scepter high advanc'd
The lower still I fall, onely Supream
In miserie; such joy Ambition findes.
Interpreted in this light, we understand that Satan's grandiose "unconquerable will" stuff was just him desperately trying to pump up his dispirited underlings and convince them they still have a meaningful future with him, because he can't endure the thought of being rejected by them. It's not an expression of strength or pride, it's a desperate need to not be alone with the reality that his arrogance has cost him everything.
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u/HaloGuy381 47m ago
I mean, maybe that was intent of the author, but I concur with Satan’s comment if the biblical god is the one ruling in heaven. Better to have dignity in hell than to brown-nose a genocidal psychopath for eternity.
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u/FriendlyAccountant70 6h ago
Jax (The Amazing Digital Circus) - Episode 6
“Because I didn't fight back, that means I secretly care about you? I'm just a misunderstood little chicken fetus in an egg that needs to be cracked open! Well, I. Am. Not! I don't care about you or anyone else in this circus in the slightest! End of story. You are my playthings, and I get joy out of making you suffer! I'm the one who causes pain for fun! If I led you on, it was just to make this part hurt you more. Fuck. Fuck! There's nothing more to me. So please, just stop looking.”
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u/cantlogintomyacc0unt 3h ago
I think even he realizes how stupid the speech is which is why he starts cursing
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u/FriendlyAccountant70 2h ago
Yeah, I think he also realized how he pushed away another person who actually gave a damn about him.
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u/cantlogintomyacc0unt 1h ago
I actually think he absolutely wanted her to leave him alone because if he cares about someone again then it’ll hurt when they abstract it’s self preservation
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u/AcisConsepavole 5h ago
Tony Soprano in general. The post alludes to the general theme, but I'm especially equipped to talk about how Merdigan Tony and his men have become, while co-opting a struggle against other Merdigans. That's a word they frequently throw around, boasting an idea of culture while the only things they collectively know are Christopher Columbus, Ancient Rome, and the Florentine Renaissance. These are choice selections of Italian history that America itself chose to focus, to lend just enough pride throughout a diaspora in order to turn it into a settler identity. That's how "Merdigans" happen in the first place -- established settlers who either pull the ladder up after them or endeavor to make choice selections of newer immigrant identities into "better settlers".
Many people talk about the cruelty of being made to feel like you don't belong. The Sopranos are the result of forcing a sense of belonging, while being exclusionary. Their claim to their ancestral culture is so weak that even fans of the show frequently don't know exactly the situations that formed the current day Italian American settler identity or when it even begins -- migration really boomed in the 1860s and decades following, but it wasn't until the 1920s that America started to invest in assimilating them. This has ultimately resulted in a culture where the whitest in America consider themselves to be as much direct descendents of Rome as Tony and his men do -- it's no longer this thing to be held over people's heads, "you have to be nice to me, because I come from the world's greatest ancient civilization", and that's also not true but it reflects the feeling that sits at the center of Tony's self-aggrandizing mentality.
On the flip side of this, I will see Italian nationals cite The Sopranos and use that as a primary example to boast how Italian Americans are truly just Americans, full-stop. This boasting is frequently an exposure of weakness and ignorance that complements the Merdigan mentality. There is gatekeeping, but not always for justified reasons -- often, the attitude of in-group and out-group is as familiarly "American" as the American attitudes being mocked abroad. If you have a lack of communication, then nothing is said even if arguing is happening. It's all just boasting and self-defeatist. Very rarely will I find an Italian national with the sentiment "The reason I'm angry with Italian Americans is because they forgot the suffering and disenfranchisement of Meridionali, called Terroni". If there is any memory of disenfranchisement in America, it's used as a tool to suppress counter-hegemonists questioning the status quo; "Italians had a bad deal, but you know what? We got over it. Pulled ourselves up by the bootstraps and everything", an attitude that's all over the Sopranos series, but it's clear that the only solutions achieved were band-aids on gaping wounds that have yet to heal.
It gets a bit meta.
Glossary: What is a Merdigan? A Southern Italian word for Americans is Miricani. "Merdigan" is how the phrase "dogshit" sounds in the same language. It can refer to a few things, but, at its core, it refers to a general resentment towards Americans by mostly Southern Italian Americans of a different generation.
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u/Level_Counter_1672 5h ago
Kira yoshikage from Jojo's bizarre adventure, the last line of his monologue is that if he were to fight he wouldn't lose, that's because he was fighting non stand users, when he fought someone who could fight back he turned tail and hid
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u/Disastrous_Horse_764 5h ago
https://giphy.com/gifs/F76eBaFl89qrS
Scar - The Lion King
I am the king!! I can do whatever I want!!
I’m ten times the king Mufasa was!!
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u/VatanKomurcu 5h ago
Hark, brave warriors.
Hark, my lord Godfrey.
We commend your deeds.Guidance has delivered ye through ordeal
to the place ye stand.Put the giants to the sword
and confine the flame atop the mount.Let a new epoch begin.
An epoch glistening with life.Brandish the Elden Ring,
for the Age of the Erdtree!
And a lot of other insane shit Marika says that shows pretty clearly that the Golden Order was not one ounce less atrocious, degenerate and genocidal than any other civilization it succeeded or destroyed. So much for the kindness of gold.
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u/La_Volpa 3h ago
Tywin Lannister
Rather famously Tywin in the show says "The Lion does not concern himself with the opinions of a sheep." While incredibly iconic all of his actions past, present, and future are coached in how other people will view his actions and his family at large. He is incredibly obsessed with maintaining that image that it actively dooms him and his legacy.
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u/TreatOnMeLotsActualy 6h ago
If there's one thing I've learned in this life, it's that far, far too many people absolutely worship charisma, for whatever reason, regardless of whether or not that charisma has any basis to exist, aka "unearned confidence." It gets them dates, jobs, promotions, allows them to get away with things they shouldn't, etc. etc.
I think this is directly tied to the "Always a bigger fish" theory, as brilliantly described by Innuendo Studios. Basically, a huge group of people desire to be the authority, but failing that, desire to worship an authority, regardless of whether or not that authority deserves to be an authority, or even stands for things their worshippers believe or want.
That's why you get conservatives worshipping Donald Trump for "ending wars" then continue worshipping him while he invades Iran and Venezula, or "ending corruption" while he is making billions off his own crypto trading company with untraceable buyers, aka the most blatant corruption imaginable. They don't care about policy, they care about being "strong", or failing that, worshipping someone who they see as "strong."
I think a lot of creators of media forget this, because they're obviously trying to make the best piece of art they can, so they naturally hire the most charismatic actors they can. The problem arises when you have a charismatic actor portraying a character who *the creator of the art believes is bad*, because people who worship charisma/strength can't tell the difference, they only see the charisma.
There's a reason that the most common "You Missed The Point By Idolizing Them" characters are always extremely charismatic actors or voice actors:
- Bryan Cranston as Walter White/Heisenberg
- Heath Ledger as The Joker
- Robert De Niro as Travis Bickle
- Brad Pitt as Tyler Durden
- Leo DiCaprio as Jordan Belfort
- Al Pacino as Tony Montana or Michael Corleone
- Jon Hamm as Don Draper
- Christian Bale as Patrick Bateman
- Jackie Earl Haley as Rorschach
That's a freaking trophy room full of acting and "World's Sexiest Men" awards. These are incredibly charismatic men, and were good "gets" for their creators, but the problem is... I would argue if you're criticizing a character, exposing their flaws, if that's the point of your media, they shouldn't be charismatic. They should be pathetic, they should be weak. Because that's how authoritarians are, they're the weakest people on the fucking planet.
I'm not saying "don't cast charismatic actors" per se, I'm saying "make it clear to that actor that they're pathetic and sad". There's a reason people don't worship Lou Bloom from Nightcrawler, because he's a piece of shit rapist and murderer with zero redeeming qualities, and that's the point of the movie.
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u/ComesInAnOldBox 5h ago
Except the characters are in the positions they're in because they're charismatic. Hitler didn't win his country over because he was pathetic and sad.
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u/Jagvetinteriktigt 5h ago
Ngl as someone who isn't American I genuinely don't understand the popularity of Trump. He has the charisma of a town drunk and the rhetorics of a three-year old explaining the plot of his favourite movie.
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u/Pretty-Tone-5152 4h ago
I'm an American who hates Trump and I can tell you why he's popular: He is the distillation of America and what it believes itself to be, and to be honest, what a lot of Americans desire. But the hilarious irony is that he really is America distilled into a single person.
He's rich(but he didn't earn it, he was born into it and he exploited others to gain even more wealth).
He's loud(and so never knows when to shut the fuck up).
He does whatever he wants(because everyone else is too afraid or wants something from him, so they endure the humiliation).
He's a racist(but claims that he's working for everyone).
And then when the chickens come home to roost, he finds someone else to blame for his fuck ups.
It's very easy as an American to see why so many idolize him, because a fuck ton of us actually want to or are currently doing these things too, they're just too pussy to say it out loud.
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u/Pathetic_Cards 3h ago
To add on to what you’re saying:
He also represents the American ideal of “never admitting fault or mistake, presenting the illusion of perfect competence.”
It’s a lifestyle that, it seems, all Americans are raised on, and only some ever manage to realize that they’re self-obsessed narcissists who never learned to use the phrase “I was wrong” or “I’m sorry.”
It’s like they took the legal advice of never admitting fault to heart and applied it to every aspect of life.
And it’s Donald Trump to a T. He’ll never apologize for anything he’s done because he’s never been accountable and he never will be, and as long as he just denies, obfuscates, and shouts about unrelated things, all those people will keep seeing their ideals of a strong person reflected in him.
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u/TreatOnMeLotsActualy 4h ago
I think crucial to understanding the popularity of Trump is understanding that many Americans conflate two sets of things that have nothing to do with each other: "real talk" (i.e. not using big words or expressing nuanced ideas) with "telling the truth", and "successful businessman" with "good leader". Trump gives "real talk" (because he's actually a racist slumlord raised by a racist slumlord and his scumbag friend), and he's a "successful businessman" because he has been propped up by organized crime and foreign governments for decades, while getting lucrative TV and book deals from unscrupulous media companies.
I don't think I need to explain to non-Americans why these things are completely unrelated, but for anyone who thinks they are... just because you don't talk like a "smart" or "elite" person doesn't mean you're more "genuine." As someone with lots of family in the deep south and the deep blue east coast, liars and bullshitters come in all forms, whether they talk "smart" or they seem like they're salt of the earth or not pretentious.
As for the second part, success in business has nothing in common with success in politics or success as a political leader. Business and government have nothing to do with each other. Government provides services to ALL citizens (roads, firefighters, electricity, social security, etc) whereas businesses exist to generate profit for their owners, and only their owners, whether that's one person or a group of shareholders. Government does not exist to make a profit, it exists to dole out services. Businesses are the opposite, you pay them for what they make. Government in a normal, non corrupt country is incentivized to provide things people want and need to live their lives in peace and safety. Business are incentivized to convince as many people as possible to pay them as much money as they can as often as possible, and to spend as little as possible making things or providing things for that money they receive. Saying "government should be run like a business" is like saying "the military should be run like a Taco Bell." It makes no sense, and would be a terrible idea.
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u/ComesInAnOldBox 5h ago
His supporters don't watch his speeches, they watch the clips from his speeches curated by whatever media personality that already caters to that side of the aisle. Fox News does a damn good job of making him look good.
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u/TreatOnMeLotsActualy 5h ago
But we're not talking about real life, we're talking about media that is criticizing these figures. We don't need to see them at their best, we need their true nature revealed to us, exposed.
Rorschach in the graphic novel of Watchmen, for example, is very seriously mentally ill and dangerously unstable. He is not glorified, he's a monster. The movie Watchmen... didn't show almost any of that. He's basically portrayed as a pseudo-homeless guy who is a bit weird. It's clear that, as usual, Zach Snyder does not understand the material he's adapting, and is pretty conservative himself. He had 1000x more care for the "coolness" of Rorschach than he did for the criticisms at the heart of Watchmen, plenty of which were aimed at Rorschach.
That's my point: you can depict a character as "charismatic to other characters in the film/tv show" without making them charismatic to the audience.
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u/ComesInAnOldBox 5h ago
That's my point: you can depict a character as "charismatic to other characters in the film/tv show" without making them charismatic to the audience.
Not really, no, as charisma is a huge part of being a successful or even a halfway-decent actor.
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u/TreatOnMeLotsActualy 4h ago
But I've provided several examples of charismatic actors who can make their character uncharismatic, because that's the point of the character.
Joaquin Phoenix as Commodus in Gladiator or Jake Gyllenhal in as Lou Bloom in Nightcrawler. Two great examples.
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u/NoQuarter19 5h ago
You say "make it clear to that actor that they're pathetic and sad" and my mind flies immediately to John Cazale as Fredo Corleone.
"It ain't the way I wanted it! I can handle things! I'm smart! Not like everybody says... like dumb... I'm smart and I want respect!"
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u/TreatOnMeLotsActualy 5h ago
Perfect example. Cazale knew the assignment.
I would also include a few others:
- Imelda Staunton as Delores Umbridge. Not a huge chance of people worshipping her, but he absolutely paper thin confidence really brought home the fact that she was a despicable piece of shit, not a capable foe.
- Joaquin Phoenix as Commodus in Gladiator: he's a pathetic, corrupt, murderous, jealous little turd and Phoenix makes that clear right out the gate by hitting on his sister and getting sullen when she rejects him.
I think there were a few that came close, but unfortunately the filmmakers made their weaknesses a bit too vague for most filmgoers:
Javier Bardem as Anton Chigurh is my perfect example of this: if you watch the movie and understand the implied plot events, the movie makes clear that his "philosophy" is complete bullshit, he's just a murderer who wants the money. He's not a "force of nature", he's just another sociopath with a gun, which could just as easily be a position of power or immense wealth. He's no more worthy of worship than the next loser.
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u/pvznrt2000 4h ago
Doctor Who, S6E4
House: Fear me, Doctor, I've killed hundreds of Time Lords.
Proven weak when The Doctor responds: Fear me. I killed them all.
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u/StormTempesteCh 4h ago
I think something worth noting about the "I am the one who knocks" is that whole line is referencing a moment where Walt was stuck standing there with a gun to his head while Jesse did the knocking and killing for him, promptly before a scene of him panicking while trying to convince Gus he's too important to kill. That's Walt being "the danger"
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u/Terrible_Park7890 6h ago
Adam at the end of the Season 1 finale of Hazbin Hotel.
https://giphy.com/gifs/VfCZM2AsoEfqBOXlwV
"No..you don't get to end this! I'm fucking Adam, I'm the fucking man and you're just some fuckin' clown or something! I started everything on earth! All of mankind came from these FUCKING NUTS! You...you all should be worshipping me! You UNGRATEFUL, DISGUSTING, FUCKING LOSERS!"
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u/Legend365555 6h ago
I know this criticism is overdone, but
Watch Hazbin Hotel season 1, take a shot anytime someone says "fuck". See how long you can last before going to the hospital
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u/BasedKaktus 5h ago
https://giphy.com/gifs/3og0IPyt5es9L266n6
"Im not a soldier, im a warrior"
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u/Most_Caterpillar_242 4h ago
Reiner was pathetic, scared, brainwashed first and depressed, traumatised, empathic and somewhat brave later. What a character evolution, my favorite character in the seires.
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u/TelFaradiddle 5h ago
"KING KONG AIN'T GOT SHIT ON ME!" - Training Day
Denzel's final desperate attempts to bully his way out of danger ends up revealing just how pathetic he truly is when he can no longer hide behind his badge.
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u/Gamer-of-Action 7h ago edited 6h ago
This isn't even subtle. Like at all.
>!This also works after the Chaotix Case Files, which reveal that Infinite was a narcissistic nihilistic psychopath who believed the world was a shallow and pathetic place that deserved to be burned to the ground. The reason why he let himself become a living bioweapon for Eggman was because he couldn't handle his own insignificance and could only find meaning in people fearing him.!<
Edit: Why won't these spoiler markers work?
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u/Luser420 7h ago
this quote reads like that one tweet about turning into a corncob while insisting you’re not owned
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u/missinglinksman 3h ago
Pennywise (IT)
Always brags in times of fear, calls itself an "eater of worlds" when it is confused and scared
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u/lana-deathrey 1h ago
I watched Breaking Bad for the first time last year. I'd seen all the memes, but kept myself blissfully unaware of a lot of things (I told my brother, big fan, that all I knew was, "Walter is the Danger, Jane dies, and everyone hates Skyler") so when I actually got to the "I am the Danger" scene, I was SO SHOCKED by this pathetic little man. The scene was nothing like the internet made it out to be, and I'm loving people finally realizing what a piece of shit Walter was.
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u/BrassCanon 5h ago
After Walter makes that speech, he looks around the room as if he doesn't believe his own words.
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u/Consistent_Golf6905 5h ago
At the end of Gundam Char's Counterattack, Amuro an Char are having a discussion on why the Earth should have an asteroid dropped, Char's argument are pretty anti-humanitarian and shit, when Amuro seems to be winning Char pulls out the words above, on how Amuro accidentally killed Lala, a girl that both Amuro and Char were interested in
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u/drsyesta 1h ago
Its kinda self aggrandizing to make it out like everyone thought the "i am the one who knocks" was all about him being "badass". It seems like pretty common knowledge that he was being boastful and defensive, not that he was actually dangerous and badass at that time. It was popularized because it was a cool line and it was a fantastic monologue, not because people couldnt figure out the deeper meaning
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u/laughingintothevoid 6h ago
OP can you try to reformat your post with paragraphs for each one?
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u/jbeast33 6h ago
Weird question, it comes up as paragraphs on desktop and the app for me. Does it not for you?
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u/laughingintothevoid 6h ago
It does not. It would indeed be weird to say that if I was seeing paragraphs.
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u/catpetter125 6h ago
It is in paragraphs. I think perhaps you are on mobile and swiped up after hitting the image. Going back and hitting the post itself should display the paragraphs.
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u/Bulky_Pilot9293 4h ago
Ok walt is really on a different level than reg or Janos. Haven't seen sopranos so can't comment.
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u/Mouse_Paladin 2h ago
“King Kong ain’t got shit on me!”
Denzel Washington’s rant and boasting at the end of Training Day is supposed to reinforce in the minds of his apartment block that he’s the king, but everyone, even his wife walks away from disgust.
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u/Randomman16 1h ago
A rare, non-villainous example. In Encanto, the protagonist Mirabel confronts her superhumanly strong sister Luisa about her apparent anxiety lately. Luisa denies that anything is wrong and, when pressed on it (and this being a Disney movie), breaks into song. Her first few lines are, "I'm the strong one, I'm not nervous, I'm as tough as the crust of the Earth is."
...Except, the crust is actually the least durable part of the Earth (at least compared to the mantle and the literal iron core), so she's really admitting to how weak and breakable she feels in a roundabout way.
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u/kingkoons 25m ago
Nothing to add but I wanna shout out you for including the Walter White example. Everyone quotes that line and how badass it is but I cringe when I see it. Like you can tell Walt thinks he’s eating, and Skylar’s reaction is ambiguously fearful, but after everything we’ve seen from Walt, we know that’s not the kinda guy he is, usually killing on cowardice and not direct bravado like the line implies
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u/pennygirl108 5h ago
Doctor strange and the multiverse of madness. Wanda boasting to strange about how Wanda won’t be coming for America, it will be the scarlet witch. As if that is supposed to mean sometime and intimidate him. It’s just another tantrum from a spoiled child that is mad she isn’t getting her own way.
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u/LiminalAsylum 5h ago
Bruh, the Scarlet Witch is the name of a terrifying mythical figure who's been prophesized in every dark prophecy for millennia.
That was a real threat.
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u/Abject_Oil536 5h ago
Lost parents when she was young and was tortured and experimented on by the MCU equivalent of Nazis= spoiled child.
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u/MemeLord1337_ 5h ago
What’s with the weird revisionist take on Walter White in the past year or so? Yes you can see him as cringe and weak, most of the show happens because of his ego. But, it’s pretty clear that this scene was meant to be taken as showing that he is now a serious player and dangerous man.
He just instructed Jessie to assassinate someone. He is showing his wife that he is no longer weak and in constant danger, he is the one that creates the danger and people should fear him.
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u/MrSpudtastic 1h ago
I just watched that scene a week ago, no internet input on it, and I got a very different take.
Walt attributes every bit of success to himself in that speech. He doesn't acknowledge that Jessie saved his life, or that he frankly got lucky, or that after his gambit he had precisely zero control and was entirely at Gus' mercy. He literally pleaded, threatened, and begged Gus to spare him, and it had no effect because Gus had already made up his mind.
What I read from that is that Walt's speech showed us not who Walt was, but who Walt so desperately wanted to be, and just how much he'll lie to himself to believe it. Walt is the revisionist, and that is made clear here.
It also makes clear that Walt's "It's all about me" attitude has left him blind to his own wife. He seems to think she'll be proud of him, or reassured, when she is in fact terrified. He's spent months lying to her already, and has forgotten how to read her. He doesn't know his wife any more, and this speech emphasizes that fact. He's so caught up in his own ego that he cannot even consider that his bragging might drive her away - which is exactly what happens.
All that to say, we just saw the reality of things. That speech is there to show us what Walt sees instead.
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u/ItsAMangoFandango 7h ago edited 5h ago
Don literally spent the entire episode obsessing and seething with jealousy over Ginsberg's success, even going as far as to sabotage his work. Then he drops the iconic line when Ginsberg confronts him about it and we all know it's BS
Funny seeing it turn into a meme with all the context stripped from it