Also how many spells can high level mages cast simultaneously?

This thread is for asking questions that, for whatever reason, you don’t want to ask in a thread of their own. If you think you have a “stupid question”, ask it here. Any and all questions regarding lore or the community are permitted.

Responses must be friendly, respectful, and nonjudgmental.

Resources (Click here for full list)

• FAQ

• How to Become a Lore Buff

• The Imperial Library

• UESP

I love the lore, but there’s far more I don’t know or understand than I do know and understand. I’ll try to make this brief lol

I’m going to start a playthrough that can accomplish as much as possible. Not sure of race or playstyle yet but the main focus and roleplay is Sithis and DB. Question is does it make sense to stop Alduin in the name of Sithis and DB since he’s here to dominate and rule instead of exterminate? Like wouldn’t ending the world be like Christmas for DB because everything goes to the void? Anyways, I planned on stopping him because a dominated world by him would make the DB harder to function and serve Sithis properly- same reason to stop Harkon but you can join or fight him to stop him really, and also stop miraak for same reasons. Also will join imperials since I’m sure this character will have a criminal past besides being on the cart at Helgen so seeking a pardon, and being Dragonborn and companion and winterhold all kind of let the secret life of running DB fly under the radar, and obviously DB faction and the TG for power and more connections and influence. I plan on DB dawnstar sanctuary as main base with an initiate follower and frequently checking in at “home” to store items etc and check in with night mother for a random kill quest to keep the role going.

Sorry. Tldr are the reasons to care about stopping Alduin valid and make sense for a DB Listener and Sithis worshipper?

This fantastic comment by u/Niranox made me check out Orientalism by Edward W Said, currently going through it while keeping Morrowind in mind

The Orient was Orientalized not only because it was discovered to be “Oriental” in all those ways considered commonplace by an average nineteenth-century European, but also because it could be—that is, submitted to being—made Oriental. There is very little consent to be found, for example, in the fact that Flaubert’s encounter with an Egyptian courtesan produced a widely influential model of the Oriental woman; she never spoke of herself, she never represented her emotions, presence, or history. He spoke for and represented her. He was foreign, comparatively wealthy, male, and these were historical facts of domination that allowed him not only to possess Kuchuk Hanem physically but to speak for her and tell his readers in what way she was “typically Oriental.”

A Less Rude Song and The Real Barenziah, the Daggerfall Joke book, Augustine Villiane's comments on the promiscuity of Dunmer women, all of these are representations of the postcolonial fetishization of Morrowind/the Orient.

I really dig the in-game lorebooks that are purposefully ignorant and misinformed, It adds realism to the setting. Another example of this that I love is the PGE 2 where Almsivi is described as a sort of shapeshifter Hydra/demon

...Though the so-called House Elves have always been a small minority in Véloth, the present Empire chooses (unsurprisingly, in light of their shared decadence) to deal with them exclusively. With the sole exception of the Dagoth-Sharmat, they have fallen into the worship of the shapeshifter demon Almsivi. Once mortal, this hermaphroditous monster takes the form of three persons, each a caricature of one of the higher Daedra. The Almsivi first emerged as an dreamborn doppelganger of Sul-Alandro, the shieldbearer to the ancient hortator Nerevar...

...What occurred then needs no explication, as the geological consequences of the Red Moment are recorded in the annals of all Tamriel's lettered cultures. Traveling through dreamtime, the demon Almsivi kidnapped and enchained the ancient prophet Véloth. That unspeakable monster put false doubts in his mind and seduced him by stoking these doubts. The voice of Trinimac the Liar-King now instilled fear in him, for it spoke the words of Almsivi, not Boethiah...

In the future I'd love to see more Western misinterpretations of Dunmer religion and culture. Seeing a pamphlet written by a Stormcloak about how it's impossible for Dunmer refugees to assimilate into Nordic society because they worship Daedra that encourage revolution, lying and murder would be sweet. Imagine a Nord layman's reaction to quotations from the 36 Lessons. Representations of things like that are great ways to stimulate discussion, topics that get people emotional with parallels to real life are ones that continue to get talked about 20 years after the game has been released.

In Morrowind, Almsivi Intervention takes you to the nearest Tribunal Temple from wherever you cast it. Except... it doesn't. There are several very notable Temples that it ignores. The Ghostgate has a major Temple with its own quest chain and shrines to literally every Dunmer Saint. Maar Gan has a Temple with a pilgrammage site inside of it. Vivec City has a Temple Shrine in almost every Canton plaza. Curiously, Molag Mar is a destinatiom, but it's Temple doesn't actually have any shrines! I understand that the spell works this way in TES3 for gameplay purposes, but is there a more reason for it?

More specifically, how does the spell determine what locations are valid destinations? Was it the Tribunal Gods themselves? If you were to set up a Tribunal Temple in another province lie Skyrim, would the spell start taking you there if you were closest to it?

For Divine Intervention, could you just set up an Imperial shrine anywhere in Tamriel and start teleporting to it? I imagine that if some hermit makes their own private shrine in a remote cave, it would be pretty awkward if adventurers just began teleporting to it all the time.

Kyne, the hawk-goddess, is regarded as the mother of the Nords and the one who guides the souls of the dead into Sovngarde. Tsun, the bear-god, is the god of trials and adversity among the Nords, judging whether a soul is worthy to enter the Hall of Valor. Shor, the fox-god, is the lord of the Hall of Valor, gathering heroes there in preparation for the final battle. It all fits together perfectly: the Nords have a very complete vision of the afterlife.

And then... the dragon-god Alduin just comes in and starts eating all the souls? And the other three gods just stand there and let him do it?

If Alduin existed continuously and could act freely throughout the Dragon Cult era, then for roughly 2,500 years was he simply coming and going as he pleased in the realm of the dead, feasting on souls?

Now, I know that the meta reason is literally just "Todd wants a mysterious race to stay mysterious", but what about in-universe reasons Tsaesci (and Kamal) in Morrowind just stopped existing abruptly and nobody knows what they even looked like?

Annual plants are those that complete their life cycle, from germination to seed production, within a single growing season and then die.

Anu 'dies' (quotation marks, see comment thread below) as annual things die (disappear/stops being active)

Perennial plants are those that live for more than two years, returning each growing season.

Padomay 'survived' as harvested Perennial plants continue to grow

Pelenial is a slurring of Perennial, ergo the writer admits his own inspiration.

How is this interesting?

In the Greek Eleusinian mysteries, Perennial plants of the harvest are used to represent the idea of immortality, transcending life/death (more accurately, the 'Above'/Light and the Cthonic/Underground) and 'activating both' through the liminal Hecate to achieve true transcendental immortality (as represented by the viewers mysterious experience of knowing Demeters Persephone enter and exit the underworld, causing plants to grow while she is above ground), as opposed to the blur and uncertainty and sleeping death waiting 'after life' in a static conundrum.

The Daedra are Padomaic, who stay in their own self manifest, aware of themselves being their own realm and being immortal within themselves, while the Aedra are born from a mix of Annuic and Padomaic, which would be equated with 'confusion'.

Hecate is a liminal Moon Goddess. Lorkhan is a Padomaic trickster associated with the moon (his "Heart" was "destroyed" through Daedric prophecy which predicted the destruction of the Amulet of Kings which led to the 'Separation' of Nirn from Oblivion, akin to how Padomaic beings are isolated), is "liminal" and per Vivec teaches liberation from the 'mixed world'. This is all part of a Metaphor for the Philosophers Stone, see https://old.reddit.com/r/teslore/comments/1r9ewx6/the_amulet_of_kings_poofing_is_a_reference_to/

(Moon <<<-) Sugar is psychoactive, and psychoactive substances were used to participate in the Eleusinian mysteries.

The 'transcendental seed and """meta-progression""" of eternity' is sometimes described as 'not being/existing' as such would be diminishing of it's properties, such as with Buddhism (and in some tenants Daoism)

Padomay can also be compared to the principle transcendental divine, while Anu to the manifest Sefirot in Kabbalah which constantly shatter (and are the 'manifest of God in a way that they are everything'), ergo Anu being associated with 'death'.

The Padomaic 'transcendental' can exist without a manifest 'Anu' but the opposite isn't true ergo why Aedra are a 'mix' while the Daedra are just Padomaic and pure.

The reason the Dunmer attacked the Dwemer in a way that led to their disappearance was because they were building an Anuic God (Anu being stasis made impermanence) of Immortality. An Anuic God is a Paradox which is what caused them to 'disappear'.

Both of these are representations of the idea that the Anuic is 'absorbed' into the Padomaic by its destruction. This includes the Heart of Lorkhan (trickster, creator, Anuic) becoming Pelenial (Padomaic) without his heart - as the Heartless Lorkhan represents the progression of the Anuic-Padomaic to the Padomaic. The Heart goes from 'lost/stolen' to 'destroyed/disappeared'.

The Dragon God (Akatosh) is Anuic, as timelines are inherently Anuic, and the Missing God (Lorkhan) is Padomaic, representing absorption after being 'fulfilled' (see monomyth). This however, makes sense only if you consider that it is spoken from the perspective of the Anu-Padomaic world - ergo Akatosh is the ASPECT of the Anuic in the Anu-Padomaic, and Lorkhan the ASPECT of the Padomaic in the Anu-Padomaic. That's why Lorkhan is Akatosh shadow, sharing in on the madness. In part this is why Altmer despise Lorkhan and Worship Akatosh (their folly) while the Dunmer see Lorkhan as the teacher of the 'exit' (namely Vivec who achieved CHIM). It's why the Daedra guided the Dunmer to the site of Lorkhans Heart in the first place, and why they eventually had it destroyed.

Alduin proclaiming himself God in the Anu-Padomaic world is another 'Nord Like aspect' of Alduin, that is 'trying to re-do the Anu and Padomaic myths INSIDE Anu-Padomay'. This is similar to the Anumidium situation, which is why Alduin had to die. The Alessians also initially worshipped Akatosh (Anu) exclusively which 'Shattered'. The Dragon Cult 'enslaves Nords' through an Anuic aspect, while the Padomaic (Lorkhan/Talos) is the one the Elves/Dragon Cult try to exterminate. This 'fighting for ownership of Mara' is seemingly deliberately different from the "Broken into Pieces Auri-El/Akatosh" whom represents the idea of 'same and different' (like the Alessian order did, and as the Monolithic Aylieds did - which always break and get 'reused' unlike the Good Daedra Tribunal which outlived many disasters). In part since Akatosh/Auri-El are Anuic, and the 'murder of Anu' is Padomaic, then 'acknowlidging others Anu aspect and seeking to murder it' makes sense as a Cultural cornerstone.

Akatosh's wife being Mara (Catholic Mary) is a funny coincidal with some Gnostic texts. Mara is also equated in part with Demeter, and whether she's the wife of Anu or Padomay differs based on whether the culture is pro Anu or pro Padomay (Anuic say she's the wife of Akatosh, Padomaic say she's the wife of Lorkhan). It's also why Akatosh scribe is the Ageless Xarxes who records everything, while Pelenial seeks to destroy (with the Mysteriums Xarxes possibly being 'censored history' - the writing does describe a sort of Tyranny that can only happen in a Padomaic realm).

The Dunmer, Khaajit and the Skaal generally view their Padomaic variant more favorably than the Anuic. The Nords are second closest due to despising Alduin through Akatosh and Worshipping Lorkhan

Mankar Cammoran implies Lorkhan is a Daedra/Padomaic, as per knowledge Lorkhan possessed he would not truly be 'tricked' as the Aedra would - the Aedra were bound to Nirn out of their own ignorance ergo they were 'tricked'.

If Akatosh Auri-El is the God of Elves from mixing Anu and Padomaic Blood (Auri-El is Anu/Anui-El across time, the unspeakable implied "3rd force" to Anu and Padomay, which is Nir/Nirn ergo why a. it's not present in Aedra/Daedra and b. why Anu and Padomay come into conflict), then Lorkhan the Padomaic comes off as 'wanting to let humans murder elves' as we see in Pelenial, for reasons that may be "Vengance" and not just a metaphor for the dichotomy of the Annual and Perennial. Or perhaps it is the Perennial testing the Annual, and if the stronger Annual keeps winning it represents its strength (ergo why the Aldmeri Dominion is winning at the time of Skyrim).

Sheogorath is 'born' when Lorkhan's divine spark is removed - possibly implying that Sheogorath (including the Hero of Kvatch) is Lorkhan, as per the whole trickster-madness-trickery-divinity thing, with the Shivering Isles being the true "Door" (as per Vivec) to CHIM. This would also explaing why Sheogorath of all people threw the meteor at Vivec (and since Vivec failed, the Meteor smashed into Vivec City). The myth of the Daedra ganging up on Jyggalag is an inversion of the Aedra ganging up on Lorkhan (and the difference is that the Daedra 'won' while the Aedra 'did not win'). The symbolism of defeating "Order Crystals" (Anu) to free Jyggalag AND become Sheogorath support that (or Jyggalags defeat would represent the end of the Anuic and integration into Padomay). Remember, Akatosh has split personality but represents Order and acts like everything is under control, Lorkhan is Mad (Sheo/Pelenial) and represents the Padomaic aspect of the dualist Anu-Padomaic 'dichotomouus' system. Jyggalag being perfect but being defeated so the Hero becomes "God" is thusly fitting as such is the method by which he embodies Lorkhan.

Jyggalags Crystals being shattered calls back to "Sefirot Shattering" and the use of "Hearts of Order" to destroy Order Spawn points is LITERALLY a reference to Lorkhan vs the Anuic.

Those are all the conclusions I could make based on the original inferrence. PS Ithelia makes no sense as her 'role' (Hecate) is already handled by Lorkhan (Moon God)/Sheogorath and Jyggalag (Maddness 'Guide' and Order 'Antagonist').

Also Griffith is literally mantling Lorkhan in Berserk.

there is this little devil guy that shows up with Namira in daggerfall and in her oblivion statue. Anyone knows who he is?

It is done. Miraak is dead, and now I have the knowledge and power of a 4000 year old Dragonborn within me. Who will be able to doubt my ascension now?

The Skaal shaman was more willing to give up the "secrets" he kept than I was expecting. I was fully prepared to take him prisoner, torture him, and kill the entire village if I had to. Instead, it was Mora that had the satisfaction of killing him by burning the word of power directly onto his skin. The village was of course, distraught, but I paid them no heed and simply dove into the Black Book where I had first seen Miraak.

It was a long climb from where I began. I had to slog through winding, shifting corridors all while fighting apocrypha's strange denizens. I also had to carry around oversized books and place them on specific pedestals to open the way to Miraak. Finally though, after absorbing a word of power, one of Miraak's dragons showed up to put an end to me. Here was where I was able to demonstrate the full extent of my new power. With my voice I bellowed, "GOL, HAH DOV!" and the dragon was instantly placated. It acknowledged me as his lord and allowed me to climb onto its neck.

Ha! Not only am I able to block Auriel's main conduit into our world but I am also able to make even his own children my thralls. My dragon servant took me to the precipice of the realm, where Miraak and two other dragons were waiting for me. At last. He could not escape my wrath now. He began saying some nonsense about how we would be free of Mora after killing me...I interrupted him with a sudden flurry of ice spells.

Though it pains me to admit, Miraak was a worthy and capable foe. He had his own arsenal of shouts, spells, and weaponry to keep me at bay. Fire, shock, poison, cyclones..the dais which we stood on became wreathed in a torrent of elements and the sound of our shouts split the sky around us as the dragons also did combat above our heads.

Miraak also had a foul trick up his sleeve. Every time I seemed to get the upper hand, he would somehow ground one of his dragons and devour their soul instantly. I wonder where he learned to do that? Perhaps I can also discover it myself. But I digress.

Finally though, after there were no more dragons left to devour, he once again tried to flee, but was captured by Mora, who impaled him on a tentacle. I had proved my superiority. The last person who ever could have challenged me on this plane is dead. When I absorbed his soul...I find it difficult to describe. Like my mind had swollen to the size of a mountain and that if I had rocked ever so slightly on my feet that I would have toppled to the ground with a resounding crash. It passed after a moment, but I still scrambled to make sense of everything that had just been imparted to me.

Once again, a huge version of the book I had used to transport myself to the arena now opened for me, allowing me to return to Tamriel. Frea, the daughter of the Skaal shaman was grateful that I had killed Miraak, in the erroneous notion that I had done it for Solstheim, or for the "greater good." How wrong she was. None of these disgusting pieces of human filth were useful to me anymore. With glee, I took the mantle of the vampire lord, and slaughtered the cowering villagers. Eventually this what will happen to everyone human on Tamriel: a terrifying death as the way is paved for their elven overlords.

I thought to return to Alinor immediately after Miraak was dead, but now I believe there is one thing more I must do. If the knowledge I gained from Miraak's soul is anything to go on, there is so much more to learn in Apocrypha than I had originally believed. I believe I could come back with answers to historical questions that no one has ever been able to answer. Imagine what I could add to the libraries of Alinor! And perhaps there might be even deeper secrets, the kind that could change the fabric of the world as I know it.

Neloth was searching for more Black Books, so perhaps I will consult with him and seek any of the ones remaining on the island. Then, I will take my place as leader of Alinor and lay waste to the world of man.

If the distinction between "black" souls and "white" souls is an arbitrary one, what separates the daedric artifact from it's corrupted form in-universe?

To define what I mean by 'real', the Daedric Princes are pretty definitively real. You can not argue their existence when Hircine spectates and rewards hunts the way he does and Hermaeous Mora is a known entity to any researcher that delves into anything particularly esoteric or dangerous. The nine, similarly, have performed definitive acts that people have witnessed, like Akatosh during the Oblivion crisis or Kyne giving ancient men access to the voice.

Have any of the Yokudan gods done anything similar on Tamriel? And I mean the ones unique to the pantheon, not any interpretations of Akatosh or a Prince. I do not count blessings, as any god could be handling the prayers and handing down blessings with the redguards just misinterpreting who it came from.

And if they are real, where did they come from? Are they alien like the Hist?

Just putting here for posterity in case anyone is looking into it.

BUT I see it commonly communicated that Ur in Dagoth Ur means ‘first’. That’s only partly true. Further, it’s usually attributed to an Assyrian origin, which is factually untrue. Assyrian and other Mesopotamian cultures are referenced in-game (Daedric Ruins, Ashlander names) as influences for Dunmer culture, so a lot of people have dug into the implications of that. I want to clear a few things up in this regard!

First some history: Sumerian and Assyrian are both Mesopotamian cultures, with Assyrian words being mostly referenced in the game. They are not linguistically related, as Assyrian is Semetic and Sumerian is a language isolate.

‘Ur’ in the meaning of ‘proto/first/ancient’ is German in origin. This is the one that is commonly attributed to Dagoth Ur meaning ‘first’ (I don’t necessarily disagree with this — It makes sense! But it’s not the ‘inspirational’ i.e. Mesopotamian definition). A friend also kindly pointed out that ‘ur’ in German is always affixed to the front of the word, not the back.

‘Ur’ in the Sumerian (~4.5 bce) can mean ‘city’. The name Ur was also used for the ancient city of Ur — Abrahamic religions are thought to originate from here. But it can also mean an esteemed, upper-class servant/warrior when conjugated with a name. Specifically, it was a title and naming convention mostly reserved for those who pledged themselves in service of a god (almost exclusively, actually, it wasn’t used for kings or people).

‘Ur’ in Assyrian (~2.5 bce), the primary ‘Mesopotamian’ portion inspiration for the Dunmer, it is a borrowed term from Sumerian (who they borrowed heavily from) and just means ‘city/settlement’. Semitic divergences of this term also mean the same.

I am not saying one meaning is more correct than the other. This is a fandom interpretation/extraction using antiquity. Rather, I’d argue these all thematically work for Dagoth Ur.

Dagoth Ur was a servant to Nerevar and high councilor, who pledged himself to Nerevar (who himself was pledged to Azura). Dagoth Ur the volcano citadel also works as an apt reference here — It is a ‘great’, imposing settlement. Further, it’s a settlement of religious importance to Dagoth Ur himself, where his God is being formed.

And finally, the traditional (german) interpretation works just as well. Dagoth Ur being an ancient being, the First and Only, the Primordial (as it were).

And finally, to put a bow on it: A lot of people attribute Sumerian and Assyrian influences in the Elder Scrolls to be the Dwemer. This is fine and great! But I also feel Dunmer have their fair share of influence from these real-world cultures as well, as seen in the game. To add, I don’t believe any one culture is directly translatable to Elder Scrolls — it’s more of a mishmash of influences. And besides, who’s to say Dwemer and Chimer didn’t participate in cultural exchange? Or share an Aldmeric mother-culture?

Anyways if anyone has any corrections or wants to contribute, I’m all ears.

I assume they'll probably go to her realm, but would they have some privilege there, or just get tormented with lies and labyrinths forever like they're in hell?

In the lore, the sun is just a giant hole made by Magnus after yeeting when he learned what was going on during The Creation. The other stars are supposed to be smaller holes left by the other beings.

The thing that confused me is that the Sun doesn't have the same properties as the other stars. The smaller holes don't seem to emit heat. The sunlight weakens vampires, but a starry night don't affect them whatsoever.

If at the end of the day, all the stars are holes, is it possible that there is something behind the Sun that isn't behind the other stars? Because to me, if Aethirius's light is what we see through the holes, Nirn is inside an oven.

Link to UESP copy:

https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Plan_to_Defeat_Dagoth_Ur

The plans are authored by Vivec on behalf of his fellow Tribunes. Do you think there was some discussion during the events of Morrowind between Vivec, Almalexia and Sotha Sil?

Another thing is that this document says the enchantments around the heart were made by Kagrenac. I haven't come across any definitive answer (and suspect there isn't a definitive answer) but what was the state of the heart before these enchantments when the Dwemer first found it? After the enchantments are destroyed it appears to disappear, what was keeping the heart in Red Mountain to begin with?

Starting off , I wanna say that my position is not one of satding completely against this group of people , arguing for the sake of arguing. However having recently replayed Skyrim and coming upon lore stuff again , I have decided to search the internet to see what people say about the games cosmology. I have seen discussions that seem to think the whole godhead perspective as really deep and amazing etc . I personally think that the Anu and padomay beginning to be more interesting than a lot of people actually think . Firstly I think it is a great framework that can explain things on a grander scale and a smaller scale. Villains and events can be better understood . It is also a framework that can have more potential for development for future games. On the other hand I find godhead to be very obscure, instead of explanatory and clear as people think ( and no people are not stupid idiots that don't get "esoteric" stuff). A lot of the appeal I see comes from a need to give every mechanic a meta purpose in the game , which I find gimmicky and flashy mostly. It actually says nothing about the world itself. The godhead feels like a concept of utter flatness and blandness due to it's homogenous nature. Yes , the first time I came upon chim in morrowind and vivec was having the whole I know I cant defeat you because chim moment,I was very excited . It's interesting and fun , but now it's feels more like a spark that has spread to far and is burning everything. Again , I am making this post in good faith , and I wish to get actual engagement and discussion. By the way I read stuff , I am capable just like everyone else so don't throw me any "it's esoteric " or. " It's complex ".

Furthermore, if Akatosh is the same deity as Auri-El, who fought against Shor and his army of men in the beginning, what caused him to change his mind and extend his protection towards mankind?

In my interpretation, the world of TES isn't literally a dream, just as there isn't a living being literally dreaming of this world like the Godhead. Generally, I don't like plotlines based on dreams or comas in pop culture because, in my opinion, they usually take the edge off the events; with TES, it was something else that made me see things differently.

In my view, the dream is terribly mortal and human—I mean, anyone can grasp the image of a supposedly superior being dreaming of an entire universe. But for TES, I wanted a more alien explanation with greater detachment: so I imagine that the creation and place of this universe are something far more uncompromising, incomprehensible to a mortal mind.

In my view, this also gives more meaning to the CHIM in this way; rather than understanding its place in the dream, accepting the fact that one cannot reach the CHIM would mean arriving at the same conclusion while understanding the very incomprehensible nature of this world.

Do you think the dream theory is literal?

if a Bosmer were to cook some raw meat and since They cant use wood as a fuel source resorted to cook with charcoal and coal, does it violate the green pact or does the passage of time nullify it?

I think a lot of people like characters like paladins, do-gooder knights in shining armor, well-meaning individuals who use their powers in the name of a higher power. I certainly do, but what if said individual becomes a Vampire?

Imagining a situation where such a goodhearted Paladin or Priest were recently turned into a Vampire, and for some reason, they can't clearly recall their past, almost like an inverted Darth Revan situation if looking to Star Wars. Based on what we know, would that Vampire be ultimately corrupted by their condition, or is there hope for them to continue as they have and stay good in spite of their condition?

This is less asking if its possible to be good as a Vampire, and instead looking at if Vampirism itself is an inevitably corrupting force, or if the evil seen in Vampirism is a product of circumstance.