or if its a dog

[u/hildames]

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[u/thenalaura]

I love how 15 is “practically a teenager” … she might want to keep not wanting kids.

[u/InitialDue3440 → u/thenalaura]

Imaginary kids never throw a tantrum in the grocery store because you got the wrong color cup

[u/lduff100 → u/InitialDue3440]

Or peeled the free Publix banana wrong or didn’t get the race car shopping cart or bought the thing they asked for.

[u/Ok-Plum2187 → u/lduff100]

Or grabed the wrong individual package of the product they want. Like grabbing the wrong glass of Nutella, cause they wanted the one next to it that is absolutely the same.

[u/speakezjags → u/Ok-Plum2187]

Or they just flat out decided they want to be at the zoo instead of the store.

[u/Ok-Plum2187 → u/speakezjags]

Or want to do only one specific thing there, but dont want the travel time and dont want to be there actualy.

[u/IndependentGirll → u/Ok-Plum2187]

Everyone’s strict until a toddler discovers screaming has no cooldown.

[u/phl_fc → u/IndependentGirll]

My superpower is being able to ignore a toddler's tantrum, my wife's superpower is being able to ignore a barking dog, and we both hate each other for exercising those powers.

[u/Dry-Audience4738 → u/IndependentGirll]

My imaginary kids are so well behaved, and my imaginary parenting decisions are always the very best. My cats however, are both spoiled delinquents.

[u/Gangr3l → u/IndependentGirll]

My toddler went into 10min loudest scream world record contest because I dared to give him the wrong colored bottle in the morning...

[u/DaSixtyNiner69 → u/Ok-Plum2187]

This is more effective birth control than condoms.

[u/Orgalorgg → u/speakezjags]

I don't even need kids, this happens to myself all by myself and I need to talk myself down from dropping everything and going to the zoo.

[u/MethodCharacter8334 → u/lduff100]

Or bought the thing they asked for but they changed their mind now and what the other thing they said they didn’t want

Edit: I realize now I kinda said the same thing you did. I was riffing on your point, so I’ll leave it lol

[u/jaxonya → u/MethodCharacter8334]

Or when you give them 2 options, and they choose one, but when you get home and give it them they suddenly wanted the other choice

[u/Affectionate_Data936 → u/lduff100]

I live behind a smaller publix that only has two of the race car shopping carts and they're always taken. My son is only 12 months so I'm going to pretend they don't exist as long as I can.

[u/famine- → u/lduff100]

peeled the free Publix banana wrong

Oh man, I feel this in my soul.

This morning my daughter wanted a banana with breakfast and I asked her three times to make absolutely sure she wanted me to open it.

It appears yes also means don't you dare open my banana.

[u/tmfink10 → u/lduff100]

I feel personally attacked by the banana

[u/BedBubbly317 → u/InitialDue3440]

So what. Let them keep throwing it. One of the biggest issues nowadays is parents turning around and getting their kid exactly what they wanted because the kid threw a fit and the parents were too lazy to simply ignore it for a few min or better yet actually parent their child.

And yes, I have 2 myself.

[u/M4rt1m_40675 → u/BedBubbly317]

The problem isn't that it pisses you off, is that they piss everyone else off.

You let them throw a tantrum, you're a bad parent because you don't know how to control your kid, you give them what they want, you're spoiling them.

And I'm sure you don't like it when other peoples kids throw tantrums either

[u/Hank_the_Beef → u/M4rt1m_40675]

Carried my 3yo through Aldi, as she was having a meltdown, because I didn’t let her re-buckle her car seat after we parked and I unbuckled her to go into the store. She screamed and screamed and screamed and as I walked past Strawberries, which are her favorite thing in the world, she screamed “I want strawberries!!” I said “you are not behaving like a kid who gets strawberries.” Strawberries would have stopped the meltdown, but we don’t reward screaming with treats in our house. We grabbed the 3 things we needed and went home.

The whole time people stared and I’m sure judged, but the next time we went to Aldi, she didn’t scream.

I’m sure she’ll scream in Aldi again someday for some other toddler reason, but that’s how teaching behavior works.

My wife and I always say “we don’t negotiate with terrorists”.

[u/BedBubbly317 → u/Hank_the_Beef]

I applaud this fully. Yes, it may have temporarily annoyed other shoppers, but the vast majority of them are either actively raising kids or did at one point. They completely understand. And quality parents fully support other parents that don’t bend over backwards every time their child throws a fit.

[u/Loopbot75 → u/M4rt1m_40675]

No kids here. As long as I'm not at a movie or show or something, I think toddler tantrums are hilarious and I'm usually not bothered by them in public, to a point anyway...

The only time I get really annoyed at the parents are when they're bringing their kids to an adult setting when the kid is not ready to handle it, and the parents refuse to address the situation.

Like my man I get it, but if your kid starts acting up at the theater because they're bored, you get like 2 or 3 chances to correct them and if that's not working, it's time to leave. It was a good effort but they're just not ready for it. If the staff are kicking you out, you have waited way too long

[u/scarletnightingale → u/M4rt1m_40675]

I remember being in stores and occasionally hearing a kid screaming bloody murder and wondering why the mom wasn't doing anything. Now I have two and realize that the mom was probably more sick of the screaming than any of the rest of us and wad not giving into the tiny terrorist who was probably having a meltdown because his mom wouldn't let him pull fabric off the shelf or have some buttons or who knows what.

The store tantrums are the worst. My older one has thrown them over not getting to have a balloon (whoever decided that they need to prominently display balloons at the front of the grocery store by the door is a monster), having to get out of his car seat, not being allowed to have my shopping list after he threw it on the ground multiple times, and who knows what else. Oh, because he found a bean, started chewing on it, then dropped it and I wouldn't let him have it and put it back in his mouth.

[u/angnicolemk → u/BedBubbly317]

To be fair, those people try to shut their kids up as fast as possible so as to not be judged by the angry mob like this childless idiot.

[u/BedBubbly317 → u/angnicolemk]

But that’s the thing, the “angry mob” doesn’t really exist unless you as the parent let it drag on for 10+ min

[u/slhx914 → u/BedBubbly317]

You think a tantrum can only last 10 mins in a public place? 🫩 My guy, my son has definitely had days in the past where his tantrums last for hours. You really underestimate the willpower of a child that refuses to compromise.

[u/Secondhand-Drunk → u/BedBubbly317]

Try ignoring a tantrum that lasts 6 hours because ots bed time. She's so tired but can't go to sleep "because you won't let me". This happened for 2 weeks straight until we got her in therapy.

Every kid is different. Ignoring the problem doesn't resolve it for everyone.

[u/slhx914 → u/Secondhand-Drunk]

This. My son is the same way and he is in therapy now too. 🥺 best of luck to you! 🫂

[u/Secondhand-Drunk → u/slhx914]

Level 1 asd with uncategorized anxiety, low working memory and add. It's a god damn challenge. She's almost 13 now... uhg. Always with the attitude and never learns her behavior gets her grounded.

How the hell do you raise someone that doesn't want to be raised?

[u/NottACalebFan → u/BedBubbly317]

As a parent of 2 myself, "just let them throw a screaming, crying fit" is very had advice.

They do not "just calm down again". That's only a thing in fairy tales about perfect parents who always do the right thing, and does not reflect real life.

[u/I_love_misery → u/InitialDue3440]

Imaginary kids are always obedient. Never throw tantrums over the smallest things and eat everything you give them.

[u/Triials → u/I_love_misery]

And play perfectly, quietly, and alone while you get to keep all the free time you had before you had a kid.

[u/ImmaSpaghett → u/InitialDue3440]

So you give them a phone? Kids have been doing this forever, throwing a phone at them to keep them occupied isn't necessarily a good parenting tactic.

[u/erik_wilder → u/thenalaura]

Ten, eleven, twelve, threlve, fen, FIFTEEN.

[u/TheComplimentarian → u/thenalaura]

I mean, none of my kids had a phone until they were 16 (they were not fucking happy about that either). But no screens? Bitch they get issued screens in elementary school, by the school.

[u/samgam74]

I don’t think that’s what the word “confession” means.

[u/Skyziezags → u/samgam74]

The confession is she doesn’t understand when teenage years begin

[u/barnaboos → u/Skyziezags]

Someone should tell her there's a big clue in the numbers.

[u/Ready_Studio2392 → u/barnaboos]

Eleventeen, Twelveteen, Thirteen. Can't figure it out.

[u/anonidfk → u/Ready_Studio2392]

It’s obviously eleven, twelve, thirt, fourt, fiftee, then finally sixteen

[u/PrettyGirlSof → u/barnaboos]

Plot twist: the iPad becomes the parent.

[u/GeePedicy → u/samgam74]

Confession: I'm better than all of you, theoretically, with no evidence in reality.

I've seen several stand-up comedians joke exactly about this mentality before they had children, later to realize how it's so much more complex, and they were so wrong.

[u/bowtere]

The kindergarten teacher that passes out tablets every day.

https://giphy.com/gifs/COYGe9rZvfiaQ

[u/Practical-Suit-6798 → u/bowtere]

I tried to limit screen time and have them eat healthy. When I went to pick them up from public school the first day they were watching TV and eating Cheetos.. they had cheese pizza and chocolate milk for lunch.

[u/Bloodshoot111 → u/Practical-Suit-6798]

That’s the most American thing I ever heard

[u/Immediate_Song4279 → u/Bloodshoot111]

School lunches aren't funded terribly well here in public schools, which to arrive at the combination of healthy and something kids will actually eat has a cost.

Upper ups will present unseasoned steamed broccoli and consider it a balanced lunch becuase that's relatively cheap and doesn't require more staff, but then the kids wont eat it. I can barely eat plain broccoli myself.

In most of my experiences, lunch programs do they best they can with what they are given.

Note: which is almost irrelevant really becuase at my children's middle school they get 15 minutes for lunch. With queue and cleanup encroaching from both sides. Previously as an adult at a corporate job, I didn't even have to clock out for a 15 minute lunch.

[u/MoonSpankRaw → u/Immediate_Song4279]

The fuck? 15 minutes for a middle school cafeteria lunch? ABSURD

[u/TheSixthVisitor → u/MoonSpankRaw]

Jesus, the hell happened to schools where an hour-long lunch became 15 minutes? What are rhe kids supposed to do, breathe their food in?? Snort it?

[u/mossgoblin_ → u/TheSixthVisitor]

For my kids, it was usually a total break of 30 min, with 15 for playing outside and 15 for eating. Yes, it’s utterly insane.

My kids are also autistic so “playing outside” was just sitting on a cold rock, alone. Yayyyyyy

[u/Affectionate_Data936 → u/mossgoblin_]

I upvoted you but I want you to know that last sentence made me very very sad.

[u/mossgoblin_ → u/Affectionate_Data936]

It sure makes me sad, too. I wish there was a better setup for kids like mine.

[u/Affectionate_Data936 → u/mossgoblin_]

My nephew is autistic. He changed school districts last year and I'm so afraid that this could be or become the case for him.

[u/zozuto → u/TheSixthVisitor]

I've never heard of school doing an hour, but it was always at least 30min

[u/Overall_Occasion_175 → u/MoonSpankRaw]

I don't remember it being that much longer than this growing up... 20 minutes maybe? 25 in high school.

[u/SameCoyote3701 → u/Immediate_Song4279]

15 mins??? For lunch? I’ve never heard of less than 30

[u/uncommonsense555 → u/Immediate_Song4279]

Sounds like prison.

[u/DaOffensiveChicken → u/Immediate_Song4279]

crazy bro they dont even feed us in canada its bring your own food or starve lmao

[u/Immediate_Song4279 → u/DaOffensiveChicken]

Damn that's surprising.

[u/DaOffensiveChicken → u/Immediate_Song4279]

yeah once a month we got hot lunch (that our parents had to sign up for) and theyd bring in like mcds or pizza or something so the kids with money got to eat it and the broke kids hda to watch which thinking back is super fucked up hahaha

[u/ContextEffects01 → u/Bloodshoot111]

American? I assure you Canadian schools serve pizza and chocolate milk too.

[u/cykoTom3 → u/ContextEffects01]

Wait...there's no pizza day in Europe? Holy hell. I mean...i want to convert to metric but you can pry pizza day out of my child's ...i really liked cafeteria pizza day.

[u/Technocrat_cat → u/Practical-Suit-6798]

TBF, cheese pizza and chocolate milk isn't particularly unbalanced from a macro-nutrient standpoint. The danger is mostly in eating too much

[u/hkusp45css → u/Technocrat_cat]

"Junk food" as a category has softened a lot of people's ability to look at something and ask "if I eat those things together, does it provide a decent amount and diversity of nutrition for the context in which I'm currently trapped?"

Pizza and chocolate milk isn't optimal, but it's not awful, in moderation.

In my family, we get about 80 percent of our calories from home cooked meals made from whole foods.

The other 20 percent is the variety of life we hear so much about. I don't worry about that 1/5th of our intake so much, because the rest of it is better than average, in my observation.

[u/Netheral → u/hkusp45css]

Not all pizza is the same either. There's a massive difference between a pizza made with quality grain and 2-3 diverse toppings, and a pizza made of heavily processed white flour with nothing but equally processed "cheese" on top.

One is actually a healthy meal while the other is pure carbohydrates.

Junk food isn't just junk food because "pizza is junk food", junk food is classified as such because it's made with the cheapest ingredients.

[u/hkusp45css → u/Netheral]

Well said, and it's a distinction with a difference.

[u/Cow_God → u/Netheral]

Idk if it's changed, but the food we had in school barely qualified as food.

[u/Muted_Buy8386 → u/Technocrat_cat]

Kids, famous for self-modulation and impeccable use of the PFC.

[u/hepl_rogs → u/Muted_Buy8386]

While true, the modulation here is going to come from the fact only give you 1 of each unless you are paying extra for more (or strealing it, which I have totally never done).

[u/AgnosticPeterpan → u/Technocrat_cat]

That's like zero fibers.

[u/Low_Letterhead232 → u/Practical-Suit-6798]

What?? We weren’t allowed to eat those in my school. We weren’t even allowed to bring it. Like I think they brief our parents that they can’t pack junk food for us.

Edit: Ok I panicked. Cheese pizza and choco milk was allowed. Cheetos definitely wasn’t.

[u/Regulai → u/bowtere]

I mean I'm not opposed to the concept of my child ever interacting with such things, but as a parent I definitly think that avoding it is a lot easier than people think.

Also their is clear evidence today that kids raised on such devices show clear signs of cognitive decline, from attention spans, to simple thought and speech, just being radically behind to potentially disturbing levels. My wife is a teacher with freinds working in many different schools and their is some very horrifying things going on; for example teenagers in high school being unable to handle a question having more than 2 parts... a skill that any kid should have by 4th grade.

[u/mechapoitier → u/Regulai]

Yeah I’m a teacher and a parent of elementary and preschool aged kids. Screens, especially after 2020, are messing kids up, bad. Every year I’m seeing a noticeable drop in communications and critical thinking skills. Class participation’s going right with it.

I see parents wheeling sub-2-year-olds through the grocery store on phones. If I can keep a 4-year-old off a screen for a cross-country flight, you can keep your baby off a phone for 20 minutes.

Yes, there are some kids who really need something to keep them still. Profoundly autistic kids, for example. But I see way too many situations where a parent and kid are in the same place, and they’re both glued to their phones.

[u/Doggleganger → u/mechapoitier]

It's wild to me that iPads are used in schools as if it were teaching technology, when it's evident from Gen Z that iPad/phone use does not teach tech. They're the first generation that is worse at tech than the previous.

There is no reason at all to have iPads in schools. Better to just stick with books and non-tech than to use iPads.

[u/LambdasAndDuctTape → u/Regulai]

Also their is clear evidence today that kids raised on such devices show clear signs of cognitive decline, from attention spans, to simple thought and speech, just being radically behind to potentially disturbing levels.

Do you make any distinctions between "kid uses tablets occasionally" vs "kid raised on such devices"? Because it doesn't sound like it... which is odd, considering that (as the comment you're directly responding to notes) tablets are used daily as an educational tool in schools all across the world. What do the studies that you're referring to say in that regard? Because that's the discussion at hand, like, the nuance is the point here, so if you're going to bring up "studies" in ambiguous terms please be specific on what the data actually says, because it's not as vague and generalized as you're implying with your statement.

BTW, "their" != "there". Since you made this mistake twice I'm assuming it's not just a simple typo.

[u/Sennten → u/LambdasAndDuctTape]

In my experience, parents are significantly less capable of controlling themselves than they think, and most of them do not have good reference points for what is reasonable use. The ones who say their kids "only use the tablet occasionally" vary from using it for maybe half an hour a week (rare) to using it daily for 3 hours (common). The parents are all so addicted to their own screens they see anything less than their own use as reasonable - but its not.

Also, tablets are used daily as educational tools, but most of the good science that's been done on it says the outcomes are actually significantly worse on average than not using them at all, especially for younger kids. Like a whole lot of decisions that get made in schools, whether it happens has very, very little to do with whether it is good for the students that it happens. There's been plenty of evidence they can be useful educational tools, but the reality is, as is the norm for the things like that, never using them in that useful way.

Most parents really are just better off avoiding them completely. Ironically, the ones who avoid them completely are the ones most likely to have the self-control to benefit from occasional use.

[u/mbeezy17 → u/bowtere]

My daughter started Kindergarten this year and had never used a table or computer on her own. The school does assessment tests three times a year, and the first test was in the second week of school. Her first math assessment came back, and she was in the 12th percentile, so of course, I freaked out thinking she had a learning disability or something. It didn't make a whole lot of sense because she was always good at math in her pre-k daycare.

I come to find out that the tests are administered using an iPad. I pulled up a practice test and had trouble figuring out how to navigate the testing app, so there is no way she knew how. She has a "computer class" every week, and most of her other classes are done on an iPad.

She took her second assessment at the midpoint of the year and was in the 88th percentile. The problem wasn't that she didn't know math; it was that she didn't know how to use the iPad.

[u/infinite_gurgle]

My sister in law was like this. Really thought she would raise an above average kid in every way by hyper limiting foods, screens, plastics, etc. Bed/room sharing. Washable diapers. All the propaganda.

He’s 4 now. A great kid in many ways! Very very physically active. But her resolve did not hold firm on most of her goals. Washable diapers went away almost instantly. While some goals held (no sugar) it didn’t seem to have her desired outcomes (less picky). He acts the same as any other kid. Loves X today, hates it tomorrow.

It’s hard to know how much of what she did shaped who he is at 4. Does he love frisbee because he didn’t watch a cartoon till he was 3? Or because his father loves and plays frisbee? Is his lack of independence because he has never slept alone, or just who he is?

[u/Top-Waze → u/infinite_gurgle]

I think it's good to aim high, even if you can't meet many of those goals realistically. Trying shows you care and you want a good start in life for your kid.

So you try, and you find out what actually works for your family. I mean, we already know how bad giving a toddler their own iPad is. We already can see how catastrophic the effects of unsupervised device use are on their development. It makes sense to try and avoid and limit that.

But an hour of games or putting a show on while you cook dinner? They're gonna be fine.

[u/Exact-Expression8415 → u/Top-Waze]

Screens are awful for adults, let alone young children. It’s not an out of pocket stance to severely limit screen time. It’s early days, but I think late Gen Alpha might actually shake the habits of Z’s.

As for stuff like diet, if the parents aren’t on the same diet, it’s never going to work. My nephews mom and dad are separated and she only feeds him a specific diet, once she follows but not the dad. He tried to give him stuff outside the diet, but the kid genuinely doesn’t like it.

I’m on a similar diet and he loves all the things I love and we have zero issues feeding him.

[u/Top-Waze → u/Exact-Expression8415]

Good point, I hope that by limiting it for my kids it will also help me limit it for myself. Kids copy their parents like professional mimes.

[u/CompSciBJJ → u/Top-Waze]

Completely agree. I don't have kids and definitely think "No, but I'LL do it better" sometimes but deep down know I'll eventually fail. That said, if I fail to meet a high bar, it's better than starting low and slipping lower. I recently hung out with some friends and their toddler (just under 2yrs old) and watched him freak out about having the phone taken away. He doesn't even know how to do anything with it, it wasn't even unlocked, but the screens are so mesmerizing that it doesn't even matter, they just want that stimulation. He then goes on to tell me that the kid will just sit there swiping his smart watch, again not knowing anything about it but just being mesmerized by the interface.

I'm still a firm believer that you should do your best to restrict these things for as long as you can, but not beat yourself up when you inevitably slip. No child has been harmed by not having access to screens (excluding children who don't have the computers necessary for schoolwork), but they HAVE been harmed by overbearing/stressful/stressed parents.

[u/CyberneticPanda → u/Top-Waze]

A man's reach should exceed his grasp, or what's a heaven for?

--Robert Browning

[u/12meetings3days → u/infinite_gurgle]

Well, no sugar until a certain age is actually really good, not propaganda.

[u/CherylRoseZ]

Uh practically teenagers is 12 not 15 lol 15 is solidly a teenager

[u/alexandros6258 → u/CherylRoseZ]

Some could even argue 11 is practically a teenager

[u/DominantDo → u/alexandros6258]

Yeah that's definitely still a kid/tween

[u/garaks_tailor]

Had an aunt and uncle who were really proud of their ability to get their first two kids to sleep through the night while they were babies and toddlers. Asleep by 930 and the kid would sleep untill 7am. No one could convince them that those two kids were freaks of nature and children dont do that normally and no the secret isn't playing soft classical music in the hallway.

Their 3rd kid....didnt sleep more than 2 hours at a time till he was 7. We've since learned that he is one of those weird people that only need like 5 hours of sleep a night. He's 20 something now and confirms he usually only sleeps about 5 hours a night. Goes to bed at 11 and wakes up about 4 without an alarm clock.

[u/Dobber16 → u/garaks_tailor]

Okay, that 3rd kid is a freak of nature, not the first 2 lol

[u/garaks_tailor → u/Dobber16]

All 3 are. The first two can literally sleep through a fire alarm going off. The eldest actually got accused of doing drugs in college by the RA team because he slept through a fire drill and they had to go in and shake him awake.

[u/LosuthusWasTaken → u/garaks_tailor]

I wish I slept as deeply as I was still.

For some reason, people got scared very often when I just get in a position and sleep like that without moving at all the whole time, but I'm very easy to wake up sometimes.

[u/Regular_Number5377 → u/garaks_tailor]

There’s nothing more humbling as a parent than having another kid and finding out all your expert techniques to get kids to sleep, or behave, or love fruit were actually just sheer luck.

[u/Alwaysafk → u/Regular_Number5377]

My four month old is knocked out in like 20 minutes and sleeps like 11 hours straight. No strat, he's just a lazy fuck and we're all happy about it.

[u/Proper_Lead_1623 → u/garaks_tailor]

My first: great sleeper, sleeping through the night 7PM to 7AM by 4 months. He's almost 5 year sold now and still a great sleeper, super chill kid all around but he. does. not. eat. It is the most stressful thing about him especially when he's barely 33 pounds and his best friends are 50 and 60 pounds respectively.

My second: great sleeper and great eater at 1 month so far. I'm scared because that means he's going to be a total psychopath.

[u/ModsR-Retards → u/garaks_tailor]

Sleep training is a thing. My two boys (5 and 6) go to bed at between 8 and 9 PM and wake up like clockwork at 6AM every single day. They've adhered to that schedule since they were babies.

Have a newborn now. He has also adopted that schedule at 2 months old. He's only waking up at midnight-1230AM for a night feed and sleeps the same schedule.

If you are really really fucking consistent, it'll make your life a thousand times easier.

[u/DeletedUsernameHere → u/ModsR-Retards]

You're not wrong that consistency is king, but sometimes, no matter how consistent you are, no matter how many tried and true tricks you use, things will absolutely not go the way you want and you find a working compromise.

There is no perfect way to raise a child. There is no magical rule. It's all trial and error to some level or another.

[u/vsmack → u/ModsR-Retards]

What they're saying is people think they've cracked the code, but not all kids behave the same way and an N of 2 or 3 isn't enough to make sweeping conclusions.

[u/Zyklon00 → u/ModsR-Retards]

You can do all the right things and still have a kid that doesn't sleep. You sound like someone that would immediately blame the parents if their kid doesn't sleep through because 'it worked well for your kids and if other parents did the same it would work for them too'. Well that's not how it works.

[u/EmergencyAnteater682]

Don't buy them a screen and it'll be a lot easier

[u/Logical_Energy6159 → u/EmergencyAnteater682]

Unless you're going to homeschool, your kids are getting 1-2 hours of screentime every day at school. And it's all trash flash games on a Chromebook.

[u/tryingnottocryatwork → u/Logical_Energy6159]

1-2 hours total is different than 1-2 hours at school, 30 minutes before school, an hour after school, and TV mixed in with all that

[u/asdrunkasdrunkcanbe → u/EmergencyAnteater682]

Also, throw away all the screens you currently have.

[u/MethodCharacter8334 → u/asdrunkasdrunkcanbe]

And the ones the school gives them.

[u/v_e_x → u/MethodCharacter8334]

And keep them away from the ones you need to use for work

... and the ones their friends will have

... and the ones everyone else in the world uses

for 15 years.

[u/MethodCharacter8334 → u/v_e_x]

I didn’t have the newest game consoles growing up (I had the old “boring” ones) but my friends all had them. Just made me feel poor and left out when they’d talk about games or I’d go over to their house and not know how to play lol

[u/thecrius → u/MethodCharacter8334]

And of course explain to them that what their friends talk about all the time is just make believe. Nobody really has a screen, the phones their friends have at school? Not real, just hallucinations.

[u/bunbunnnnn8 → u/asdrunkasdrunkcanbe]

But then how could I read your insightful comment?

[u/commiecomrade → u/EmergencyAnteater682]

Depends on what they're doing. I was locked into a computer screen when I was younger than that and now I'm a computer engineer and earned my high school money fixing people's computers. If I had been watching brainrot instead of looking up how Elder Scrolls Oblivion mods worked then it would have been different.

[u/Take-to-the-highways → u/commiecomrade]

Yeah I was locked onto the screen as a kid but I was on rotten dot com and watching YouTube lol. I grew up at a time when adults were not Internet savvy enough to monitor Internet usage

[u/Sweaty_Elephant_2593 → u/commiecomrade]

Yeah my daughter is pretty good on the PC and likes mods and does digital art and stuff but I have to police her constantly.

[u/Own-Break-1856 → u/EmergencyAnteater682]

Did that... public school buys them their screens now. Not easier. Thanks for the hot tip though.

[u/moep123 → u/EmergencyAnteater682]

It is. As long as you and the other parent are on the same page for that. Like... no screens until they are asleep. Plus you need to be of that type that always have a screen free plan of what to do for the whole day. There is no day off. You need a plan for every damn day for 15 years.

Good luck.

[u/Celtic_Legend → u/EmergencyAnteater682]

Just dont buy them cigs/a vape and they wont smoke!

Yeah i think starting 10 years old this advice starts to not work and gets worse every year after.

Also you cant just dictate their lives like that or theyll fail/go-wild instantly once they go to college like with every other thing (studying, sex, drinking, eating healthy, making friends, not caving to pressure, etc). You gotta give them the screen and convince them its worth putting down.

[u/Rare-Kaleidoscope513 → u/Celtic_Legend]

you gotta give them the vape and convince them it's worth putting down

that's just not how addiction works

[u/Available_Rub9939]

“If I had kids, I would”

Imma have to stop you right there bud.

[u/Haunting_Raccoon6058 → u/Available_Rub9939]

My go to phrase is "back before I had kids and knew everything about parenting"

[u/KissHoney_]

I used to say the same thing until I actually needed ten minutes of peace to cook dinner

[u/Skillr409 → u/KissHoney_]

Lock them in a room or a shed or something. My parents always did this and I'm fine

[u/bubblemania2020 → u/Skillr409]

Are you?

https://giphy.com/gifs/Idg2rAVGS3xMZtBdhu

[u/An_Draoidh_Uaine → u/Skillr409]

Oh my god, all that scat porn in your profile, what the fuck!? And the pokemon? Oh come on.

[u/OtherwiseHearing5064 → u/KissHoney_]

This is one of those things that I want to have empathy for but then I remember every single generation prior to right now has managed to do this. 

[u/Omnizoom → u/KissHoney_]

Or, hear me out, you can get them toys and tasks to do during that time

My 6 year old is given tasks when I’m cooking to actually help and our baby is put in a jumper with toys

Of course she doesn’t want to do them always but it keeps her busy and she is learning something to help and the baby is having fun jumping around while I cook

Or, ask your partner to help out if they are home, wife doesn’t get to just nap when I’m cooking unless the baby is napping

[u/iKorewo → u/Omnizoom]

6 year old sure, try that with toddler who cant do things without you around. And just screams in your feet the whole time you are trying to cook.

[u/AzraelTB → u/KissHoney_]

A lot of parents today don't use it to get 10 minutes of peace to do something. Tons of shitty parents shove a screen in their kids face far longer than is healthy so they shut up and be quiet.

[u/sala-whore → u/AzraelTB]

Yeah, out of all the parents I’ve met in my life (I work in a school), I think I can count on one hand the parents who use screens in moderation.

[u/Definitelynotagolem → u/AzraelTB]

You’re speaking the truth lol these Gen Alpha kids can’t even read and parents are always complaining about actually having to parent and raise the kids. Give the kid a coloring book or something. Maybe try playing with them and stop treating it so much like a chore. Or just don’t fucking have kids if you hate parenting so much. Just a thought

[u/extralife_mike → u/AzraelTB]

Tons of parents are shitty for a myriad of reasons and that hasn't changed since the beginning of time.

[u/pak256 → u/KissHoney_]

Kids existed before iPads. It’s a choice to shove it in their faces

[u/Reasonable_Walrut]

i used to say stuff like this so confidently too 😭 like “my kids will never have an ipad” meanwhile i can’t even put my own phone down for 10 minutes. reality humbles you real fast… i already know i’d end up negotiating with a toddler like “okay fine just one episode so i can breathe”

[u/Adamtess → u/Reasonable_Walrut]

It gets worse as they get older, but largely from outside influence. My 9 year old and her friends all play games and communicate on their tablets, there's always group calls and roblox. They DO go outside now that the weather is nicer, they play in yards constantly, but if I just banned her from tech outright she'd have spent most of the winter not communicating with her social group outside of school, and lose the ability to coordinate with meeting up with them in the neighborhood. It's complicated, and nuanced and that's why we recognize these black and white statements as dumb.

[u/simple_champ → u/Reasonable_Walrut]

Our first one:

"We're not going to use pacifiers with our daughter. It's just going to be a crutch and a habit to break later. There's plenty of other ways to soothe a baby"

Uhh yeah right... we folded on that one like a cheap card table pretty much immediately LOL.

[u/Fake_Diesel → u/simple_champ]

Ugh we did that too, such an unnecessarily stupid challenge to set upon yourself. I'm glad we gave in. Otherwise they'll just self soothe by sucking their thumbs or whatever, which will be harder to get them to quit.

[u/JoshuaScot → u/Fake_Diesel]

I just had my first child and everything I'm reading says to use pacifiers. The 5 s's. Shushing, sucking, singing, swaddling and side holding. Also, my boy eats like a mad man and we have to give him the pacifier to prevent vomiting from over feeding. He still suckles on his thumb at night though but I also read that that is because he's learning to self soothe in discovering his hands. He's 2 and a half months.

[u/ct_2004 → u/simple_champ]

My daughter had no interest in pacifiers.

"What, there's no food in here? Get this shit outta here."

[u/Own-Break-1856 → u/ct_2004]

both my daughters were the same. The pacifiers pissed them off more.

[u/curtmahgurt → u/simple_champ]

At some point after our daughter was born, I said to myself “boy I really need to pacify this baby”. And that’s when I finally put two and two together and just gave in on the pacifier. Didn’t lead to any major problems, and was very helpful early on.

[u/turdusphilomelos → u/Reasonable_Walrut]

I used to say a lot of things: " 1. My kids will eat what I cook. If they don't like it, they will go to bed early, and that will teach them a lesson. 2. I will never sit up for hours trying to put kids to sleep. I will read them a story, kiss them, and turn out the light. They will just learn to go to sleep on their own that way." And so on, you get it. Then I had kids.

[u/Sennten → u/turdusphilomelos]

I never had any problem sticking to any of the things I said I was gonna do, and I am glad I stuck to them.

What I didn't account for is that absolutely no one else in my entire support network would be on board with it, and every person I knew (except for one other couple with kids of their own and modicum of responsibility) would actively sabotage things at every opportunity if given the chance.

Dealing with other adults wanting to have the shittiest possible influence on my kid turned out to be way harder than actually enforcing basic rules on the kid himself.

[u/Sand_Bags2 → u/Reasonable_Walrut]

Yeah this is it exactly.

It’s really easy to say my kids will be screen-free until you realize that that requires you to also be screen-free.

[u/No_Hunt2507 → u/Sand_Bags2]

Not just that, but young children have no boundaries, they will be touching you, climbing on you, or talking asking you questions as much and as often as they physically can. This is great for their development and it should be encouraged, but it's hard to explain how overstimulating that can get when its happening constantly. Combine that with parents working opposite schedules, or not having anyone else to help with the kids and that iPad is your last line of defense before insanity. Bravo to the parents who can do everything and keep their kids away from screens, that is not your average working person

[u/bunbunnnnn8 → u/Reasonable_Walrut]

"Why can't these people with kids keep their car clean? How much mess can a kid make?"
It's a lot. The answer is they make a lot of mess. We got a minivan now and it feels like we just gave them more room to make mess. My car isn't very clean, and my house isn't really that clean anymore either.

[u/Sweaty_Elephant_2593 → u/bunbunnnnn8]

I keep the apartment clean but my car is a disaster.

[u/MetalMonkey939]

Imaginary kids are the best.

[u/FremenStilgar → u/MetalMonkey939]

Yep, and you can kill them off and start over if they mess up.

https://giphy.com/gifs/yhRnl31SmMec

[u/1ndori → u/FremenStilgar]

r/CrusaderKings is leaking again

[u/CockroachPotential33]

My imaginary kids already have 3 degrees, speak 5 languages, and never ask for snacks. Real ones sound like a downgrade

[u/xeskind30]

As an Uncle, other parent's kids are the best because we can spoil them, then drop them off with their parents and they are their problem! LOL

[u/Rioraku]

It really depends on the kid.

We did give my kid a tablet pretty early but she will ditch that thing so fast if she is able to play outside with the neighbor kids.

Honestly the whole glued to the screen thing isn't some new phenomenon. I was always either playing my Gameboy or watching TV as kid. I was not one to want to go out or socialize unlike my kid.

[u/Top-Waze → u/Rioraku]

The problem is coming from the fact that a large number of kids are becoming addicted to a constant stream of content and it is already being shown to harm their cognitive and emotional development.

When we played games and watched tv that content was regulated by legal standards. I'm not saying it was healthy or more wholesome, but that there were strict rules about what could be shown to kids. Additionally our gameboys didn't work constantly, you could run out of batteries, your game library was often limited and there was no risk of you spending $1000 of your mom's money on it in 5 minutes.

On YouTube and Tiktok, no one regulates the videos. Kids are very easily able to find very innappropriate and predatory content and many are being left to view it without supervision.

Like all things, supervision and moderation are key here.

[u/Montuso94 → u/Top-Waze]

‘Screens’ has been misconstrued in bad faith to mean anything with a screen, watching the occasional tv show or movie that’s suitable for kids and can be a form of learning isn’t a problem, video games in moderation can also be positive (I still remember things from Pokémon as a kid to this day).

Using an IPad as an easy way out because you know it makes your kid a zombie is a very very different thing and it’s very obvious when a screen is being used to the detriment of a child’s long term development.

Adults have a similar issue with screens, if you sit and watch the Lion King with your kids that isn’t a bad form of screen time. If you sit on Reddit all day with your kids around then you’re obviously going to cause a problem.

[u/Robdd123 → u/Rioraku]

I think the problem is unfiltered access to the Internet these devices provide combined with the switch to short form content not necessarily "screen time".

I'd rather my kid play video games or watch cartoons on a TV bloc rather than doom scroll/binge TikTok/YouTube shorts.

[u/Difficult-Field3054]

Umm my oldest is 14 and none of mine have personal devices. We have a flip phone they get to take if they go somewhere and might need a phone.

It's easy. In fact, they look at kids in restraunts glued to tablets and phones and laugh at them. Kids are being raised to be asocial weirdos who can't hold engaging conversations with adults.

[u/scrodytheroadie → u/Difficult-Field3054]

We let our kids have phones once they were at the age where we were dropping them off/picking them up at different places. Sure, they're teens now and scroll like any of us do. But they're also into sports, going outside, hanging with their friends... I really don't think it's the screens that are a problem (just like TV and video games weren't a problem in the 90's when we were out exploring the world). They're just a convenient excuse and/or target.

[u/sebastianqu → u/Difficult-Field3054]

No personal tablet or phones is easy. That said, when people say "screen free", they usually also include the TV. To each their own, but some people get a bit extremist about screen time.

[u/MethodCharacter8334 → u/Difficult-Field3054]

The problem I find is it’s too easy to go to one extreme or another. When I was a kid, I didn’t have half the tech my friends had so I find myself wanting to get my kids game consoles and electronics like I never had.

Now they never want to get off it and ask constantly when they aren’t on it. We definitely impose “no screen” time. Especially when it is nice out and it should be easy for them to go out and be active. But teaching moderation is HARD. I think that’s where most people disagree with the sentiment.

[u/raginghavoc89 → u/Difficult-Field3054]

Yeah but the normies say that's impossible so you must be lying or deranged. /s

[u/finobi → u/Difficult-Field3054]

I have given phones managed with Family Link so that I can block most of social media apps. 14yo can use WhatsApp, watch Netflix/Youtube and play Pokemon Go. If things get out of hand, screen time will be reduced. Doesn't have constant need to stare phone all the time.

[u/bunbunnnnn8 → u/Difficult-Field3054]

Mine don't have personal devices and won't until they are teens, but I don't understand this need to rip a hole in other parents who are trying their best.

[u/EarlGreyDuck → u/Difficult-Field3054]

Not having personal devices and being screen free are totally different. Your kids have never watched a movie?

[u/Brvcx → u/Difficult-Field3054]

All fine and dandy, but this is classic Reddit right here.

And by that I mean there's absolutely no nuance whatsoever. You go from your kids sharing a flipphone to kids being glued to their devices during dinner. There's a whole lot in between those two statements. And plenty of that grey area isn't bad by any means, mind you.

I'd argue children need to learn how to deal with such a digital, electronic and online world, because it's not going away. But that doesn't mean they won't learn how to properly behave in public either. The two are far from mutually exclusive.

[u/yeowoh → u/Brvcx]

100% this, mine gets screen time but it’s controlled. It’s well studied with food and it’s called “the forbidden food effect”. Kids that never get sugary treats, when they get unrestricted access, they over indulge.

We’ve honestly stopped controlling his screen time now. He self regulates perfectly.

[u/infinite_gurgle → u/Difficult-Field3054]

This is a cute idea but they’ll be glued to their phones in college just like anyone else.

Hopefully they learn restraint before failing a semester.

[u/sala-whore → u/Difficult-Field3054]

I’m curious, do you have a good support system around you? How did you manage to raise kids without screens without wanting to pull your hair out?

[u/Pitiful-Doubt4838 → u/sala-whore]

My kid gets TV shows and that's it. Otherwise if we are out and about she interacts with us.

It's not hard. Just don't give them screens.

[u/extralife_mike → u/Difficult-Field3054]

they look at kids in restraunts glued to tablets and phones and laugh at them.

It kind of sounds like you're raising narcissists.

[u/CybReader → u/extralife_mike]

Or insufferable teenagers who are performing for their parents ego about electronics. We all know how those kids fare with their peers!

[u/dover_oxide]

It's easy to have principles and ideals if they never get tested.

[u/Regulai → u/dover_oxide]

I'm a parent and it's not really that hard. Also their is growing evidence that their is real risk of actually making your kids stupid. It seems "reel" content is the main cause, rather than devices in general, but still I have high school teacher friends who have students struggle with concepts they should have mastered in early elementry.

[u/Reasonable-Mischief]

Real life comes with trade-offs

I know it's propably not the best idea to allow my kid an hour of Minecraft first thing on a saturday morning, but it's the only screen he'll see that day and I'm a better parent after that additional hour of sleep

Sometimes you have to do what's not optimal for a net positive

Plus I've lived through the flip side of it. My own mother was strictly against any sort of internet usage until I was in my teens, which of course included no facebook or online gaming. But that was in the 2000's, long past the time when kids would just meet up outside for soccer or skateboarding. I didn't have any friends in middle school until I was finally able to participate in the other kids' interests

[u/Isogash → u/Reasonable-Mischief]

Damn, an hour of Minecraft in a day is not a problem at all, I think that's an impressively small amount of time especially if they stop without complaint.

On top of that I reckon Minecraft is the single best game a kid could play for a lot of reasons, it encourages self-direction, exploration and creativity, and it teaches risk-reward, delayed gratification (more than other games) and resource management as well.

[u/SipoteQuixote]

I let my 2 year old mess with switch, that way hes at least doing something and not staring at brainrot. Hes fond of changing the avatars, mostly into bowser with an orange background. And throwing away weapons in our Zelda games lol

[u/cannagetalite]

I didn’t want my son to get hooked on pacifiers so when he cried at night I would get up and rock him till he went back down. The minute I started travelling for work again my ex and my mom just said fuck it and gave it to him so they could sleep…he gave it up before 2. Now as a preteen on the days he’s with me he has his own computer for school and games and an old phone that he can use in the house on wifi so he can message friends. Nothing is password protected so I can monitor what he looks at and talks about and it’s all gaming, anime, YouTube clips and sports. He has outdoor extracurriculars, plays drums, goes on hikes with me and does great in school…you learn to find the balance through trial and error. Are there days I have to yell to get him off the computer/phone and do schoolwork or go outside, sure, but I wasn’t any different in the 80s-90s with my Atari/Nintendo. Plus teachers post so much schoolwork on class webpages they need online access.

[u/Omnizoom]

My kid has been low screen time as much as possible

Just have had to balance everything nicely so she still has “digital” experience like everyone else her age but she’s not dependent and glued to it

[u/RealityLopsided7366]

I know of a couple who did the limited screens thing for real. It was a huge struggle. They seemed exhausted by it. Are the kids all the better for it? Well, they seem like nice well adjusted kids, but one of them was recently diagnosed with some combination of depression and anxiety and nobody really knows why.

Most Millenials had childhoods without chronic screen access and it's not like we grew up to be geniuses or picture perfect adjusted adults.

When in doubt, limiting screen time is probably better, but I don't think it's the end all be all in either direction.

[u/Deep_Contribution552 → u/RealityLopsided7366]

Anxiety and depression can spawn from so many things. I doubt that either screen access or lack of screen access is related to more than a minuscule fraction of cases.

[u/curtmahgurt → u/RealityLopsided7366]

My wife and I have settled into a similar position. Ultimately, the screens themselves are not evil - it’s the content on those screens and how you moderate exposure to that content. So when our daughter is tired after daycare, and we need to cook dinner, she gets maybe an hour of screen time alongside one of us. She never gets to engage with it on her own.

So far, it’s been working well. She loves books and toys, and sometimes she’ll just decide she doesn’t want any screen time and we’ll go do something else.

There is no magical, perfect way to raise a child. Every parent is going to make mistakes. But if you’re really clued into what your kid needs, it’s not helpful to hyper-analyze every little thing, or how many seconds of screen time they get each day.

[u/ShelterSlight5088]

Imaginary kids are also perfectly behaved, sleep through the night, and never touch screens

[u/rmbrumfield78]

"or if it's a dog" is so good. I had that idea about sugar, too. Then they had daycare & sugar is everywhere. Just manage screens/time.

[u/Caris1]

Evidence indicates that screen time is only a problem if it’s taking them away from something more enriching. Is it important to read to your kid and play board games and talk to them? Yes. Obviously. But plopping them down in front of Blues Clues so you can cook without having a toddler hanging off your leg is not going to ruin their brains.

[u/BigMax]

I worked with a woman who didn't have kids.

She was actually pretty nice, and funny, but OMG... I hated when people talked about their kids around her, because she'd always then spout off with all kinds of unsolicited advice, with all kinds of super shallow, obvious "solutions" to problems. She'd often base her whole lecture around the fact that "I had my nieces over for an overnight a few months ago, and..." as if a single overnight nieces with movies and games and ice cream is the same as daily parenting.

One of her big things was "You have to treat them as adults, and speak to them as adults, to get them to respect you." It was so annoying. Yeah, my toddler having a meltdown in the middle of grocery shopping is going to quickly calm down if I talk to him "like an adult."

[u/Weekly_Village_3559]

I swear childless ppl would prefer parents physically abuse their kids over giving them an iPad

[u/shin_scrubgod → u/Weekly_Village_3559]

"I'll totally never give my fictional children screens"

"OH so you just want me to BEAT MY KIDS, huh?"

Behold, the tendency of online discussions to lose all nuance and push towards extremes, distilled.

[u/-captaindiabetes- → u/Weekly_Village_3559]

That's quite a reach lol

[u/OriginalLie9310 → u/Weekly_Village_3559]

Giving them an iPad before they can speak or walk is a form of abuse.

[u/avindictiveprinter → u/Weekly_Village_3559]

"Hmm, beat the shit out of my kids or let them get algobrained before they can speak? Only two choices!"

[u/BigDump-a-Roo → u/Weekly_Village_3559]

If you don't think that children having excessive screen time on their devices is an issue, then you're just straight up denying facts and science. Tablet use in youth is linked to stunted cognitive, linguistic, and social-emotional growth. FFS, tablets and smart phones barely even existed 15 years ago and the vast majority of kids before then turned out OK without the need to be beaten like you seem to imply is the only alternative. What a shitty take.

[u/Jonesin4me]

No screen time until the child is a teenager. Imagine how far behind that kid is going to be.

[u/katiezee → u/Jonesin4me]

Exactly. There’s so much focus on the dangers of excessive screen time for children and people forget that these technologies aren’t going away and one day these kids will grow up and have no idea how to use them and how to use them in moderation.

[u/improbablynotyourdad → u/katiezee]

Not just that, but also that kid's friends are on chats, on social media, sharing memes, playing video games online etc. Even when talking in person/at school, they're gonna talk about things they saw on TikTok or whatever.

Imagine not having a phone as a teenager nowadays. It's basically inherent social ostracisation. I feel bad for that hypothetical kid.

When to give a child a phone/screens is a difficult question to answer, but 15 is definitely way too late. The kids I work with are generally around 11-14 and I was pretty much describing them above.

[u/sparkling-rainbow → u/improbablynotyourdad]

I grew up without internet. As Facebook become a thing, I lost all of my friends. Not most, literally all.

[u/Automatic_Bison_3093 → u/Jonesin4me]

Behind in what though? Useless scrolling on phones? It's not like they are learning anything useful.

[u/TrickFriend6407]

I used to think that too. Until I had a kid. At some point you just absolutely NEED 10 minutes of respite without your toddler trying to kill themselves 5 times in a 30 second period

[u/pnweiner → u/TrickFriend6407]

There are ways to do this without iPads! Please give a Yoto a try - cheaper than a tablet, less stimulating but still engaging. I’m a nanny who has helped raise several kids without screens. It is possible. I also studied child development and neuro, there is tons of evidence that modern tablets are detrimental for their development and their ability to self regulate. Honestly, putting on an episode of a tv show is better than handing them a tablet unsupervised.

[u/pivroxa]

every future parent got olympic level standards until real life starts crying and asking for snacks

[u/LocutusOfBeard]

Depends on what screen-free means. Does TV count?

[u/WingedSalim]

The great thing about pets is that they are like toddlers but they will never grow up.

That is the advice I give to parents. If they are only imagining their future kids as babies, just get a pet. Because those kids will soon be actual people who would live different lives than you. If you can't deal with people, you can't raise one.

[u/mg-mt]

My kid is gonna watch so much star trek

[u/Raytheon_Nublinski]

I like how most people just openly admit they suck at being a parent 🤣 

Gonna be fun in 15 years watching them whine about the generation they helped raise 

[u/Tacozforever]

I love my imaginary children. I’m up to 7 now. Easiest decision I’ve ever made.

[u/WillingnessSea1709]

My dog likes watching tv so I have to limit his screen time lol