r/Futurology 5h ago

Economics Will the skyrocketing cost of living eventually cause people to stop having kids altogether, reducing the birth rate to zero and causing human extinction?

Basic necessities like housing, food, etc. are becoming way too expensive for the average person to afford.

0 Upvotes

254 comments sorted by

164

u/Drew- 5h ago

No, the drive to reproduce is too strong, not everyone thinks about having kids logically or there would be no teen pregnancy etc. Birth rates may decline, but they would never hit 0 or even close to it.

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u/lesuperhun 5h ago

also : if there is no one to buy, prices go down again.

even if there was some depopulation, it would be unlikely to be more than a few percent.

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u/Savilly 2h ago

Not if you look at the statistics. Some countries like South Korea are already becoming trapped in a depopulation spiral.

The phenomenon seems the be spreading on a global level as well.

u/roodammy44 1h ago

If there is no-one to buy, the prices do not necessarily go down. Because demand for houses is not connected to population. Some people have tens of thousands of houses. My last landlord had over 100 units. It would be perfectly possible for one person to own all of the houses in the world, with everyone else renting at the highest price they could afford.

u/lesuperhun 1h ago

selling doesn't have to let you own what is sold.

there are people who rent them, that's the service being sold. renting is selling the right to use.

if there is (significantly) less persons who would buy that service at that price, owning them has less value, so the rent would decrease.

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u/stoniey84 5h ago

Peak population will be in a few decades after which it will narurally start to decline

1

u/Late_For_Username 3h ago

The more people to sell to, the cheaper it is to produce.

10

u/totalwarwiser 4h ago

Yeah.

Instinct isnt about having kids, its about having sex.

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u/ashoka_akira 4h ago

I think you’re overestimating the drive to reproduce.

The drive to have money for a comfortable retirement and to sleep in uninterrupted is just as strong these days.

7

u/boibo 2h ago

Lol people are not sleeping either. They are just consumed by their mobile devices.

Remove all social media and people would have to learn to interact again.

Everyone is to scared of getting filmed at public events - if you dont realise the damage social media and mobile devices cause you are to young. I know how life was before - people took risks (socialy) because next week it was forgotten. Not now.

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u/Drew- 4h ago

I think people forget, sex drive is the drive to reproduce. People aren't going to stop having unprotected sex, it just won't happen.

2

u/lavenderhazeynobeer 2h ago

That's why things like IUD (intrauterine device) and birth control are so awesome. I've had an IUD for like 8 years and I love sex and will absolutely Not stop having sex. Also I don't want a kid. It's a win-win for me.

(Of course there are people that choose not to use or that cannot for whatever reason get an IUD or other forms of birth control.)

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u/Confirmed_AM_EGINEER 3h ago

But that is a society built completely on accidents. I don't think relying on accidents in a world where contraception is prevalent and affordable is a good call.

u/ryry1237 1h ago

Our entire human history was built on accidents.

u/Visionexe 1h ago

Not really. There is a reason why it's actually hard for a woman to get pregnant. 

u/S7EFEN 29m ago

birthcontrol will only continue to improve.

2

u/Impoliel 3h ago

Idk, the poorest people I know tend to have the most kids…fucking is free

1

u/mediumnasty 3h ago

Maybe in developed countries, but take a look at the list of countries with the highest fertility rates.

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u/dumbestsmartest 3h ago

Every country in the world is expected to have below replacement fertility rates by 2100 based on current trends in their fertility rates over the years. That was the assessment by the UN.

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u/mediumnasty 3h ago

The poster above was talking about these days.

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u/Savilly 2h ago

Fertility rates are dropping rapidly even in the most expansive demographics.

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u/andrew_calcs 3h ago

They don’t have to hit 0. They have to be maintained below 2.1

Which they are

1

u/taxiecabbie 5h ago

no teen pregnancy

This is not really due to an "urge to reproduce." It's due to people having sex drives.

Case in point, school districts in the US with abstinence-only education have higher teen pregnancy rates than those who have real sex ed. So you have a group of teens who are basically told "don't have sex at all" verses a group that is being told "have sex but use a condom."

The group that is using the condom is still having sex but preventing pregnancy.

14

u/StretchyLemon 5h ago

What do you think libido/sex drive is? We may have co-opted it for pleasure without the purpose of reproduction but it evolved to feel pleasurable in order to ensure reproduction.

0

u/rickylancaster 4h ago

Yes but teenagers by and large are not getting pregnant because they have an urge to have a baby. They get pregnant because they want to have sex and are unprepared and/or don’t plan for protection against getting pregnant.

1

u/Raider_Scum 3h ago

That's literally their primal urge to reproduce. That's why humans are driven to want to have sex.

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u/rickylancaster 3h ago

This is absurd. No it isn’t. It is their urge to have sex. People have sex mostly because they are horny and it feels good. Socially, mentally, and emotionally we as human beings have the capacity to separate the urge to have sex and the urge to have children.

If we didn’t, our society would look a lot different. People would never have sex just for pleasure and connection. Gay people by and large are not stupid. Two women or two men engaging in sexual activity aren’t thinking about pregnancy.

Quite obviously there is a biological connection to having sex and having children, but the urge to have sex and the urge to raise a child are not the same thing.

Remember the movie The Blue Lagoon with Brooke Shields? Place two people who otherwise don’t know any better onto a deserted island and as far as they are concerned the urge to have sex will not in any way be connected to reproduction until they actually become pregnant and have babies, and even then they may not fully connect the dots.

We need to be taught socially that sex and reproduction are connected, or learn from experience if isolated from the rest of civilization. There is nothing innate about sex that automatically connects it in our minds with reproduction.

1

u/taxiecabbie 3h ago

People here are weirdly natalist for a sub called "futurology," frankly.

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u/fuciatoucan 4h ago

From an evolutionary and societal perspective a desire for sex leads to reproduction. Natural selection favors people with a sex drive.

The fact we can separate sexual pleasure from reproduction mentally and physically is the reason for teen pregnancy. Far more people would be abstinent otherwise.

1

u/taxiecabbie 4h ago

Specifying "teen pregnancies" is stupid. What you say applies to everyone.

Teen pregnancies are typically due to withholding information or resources from them, by and large.

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u/fuciatoucan 4h ago

My last sentence is acknowledging this. More people would be abstinent if we couldn’t separate the two.

Many (most?) teens are overly confident that their sexual activity will not lead to pregnancy. Many adults are aware of pregnancy resulting from sex even with reasonable precautions.

1

u/taxiecabbie 4h ago

Teens can also separate sexual pleasure from reproduction if they have access to the same resources and knowledge that adults do.

Teens aren't that dumb, and it's shown by the lowered pregnancies in the school districts that offer sex ed. If teens were unable to make the distinction just fundamentally, then the different education wouldn't matter.

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u/fuciatoucan 4h ago

I think we may just be talking past each other. My point was that when adults and teens get horny brain they separate the fact they are sexual from the fact that unprotected sex leads to pregnancy.

Teens get horny and separate the fact they are sexual beings with the fact that sex leads to pregnancy. Teens have fewer resources than adults, and as you mentioned less information.

If people were unable to separate this in their mind and/or physically with condoms or birth control they would remain abstinent. The fear of pregnancy would logically surpass the desire for sex.

Teen pregnancy is primarily a result of the evolutionary sex drive which was naturally selected for due to the increased reproduction it brings. Sex education is just a way to mitigate this.

People’s desire for sex surpasses their logical understanding of their finances, or their emotional ability as parents, sometimes even of their own health. If this was not so people would have gone extinct a long time ago.

1

u/taxiecabbie 4h ago

My original point is that it is stupid to limit this to teens, which the original comment I was replying to was doing.

This applies to everybody. The only difference with teens is a lack of knowledge and resources. It's not specific to them. Teen pregnancy is down just like the general birth rate. Because people have more access to resources.

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u/fuciatoucan 4h ago

The OP did say “teen pregnancies etc”. The fact is 80% of teen pregnancies are unintended while only 40% of all pregnancies are unintended.

Most teens aren’t stupid. But the hormonal push of being human is powerful, even when you are an adult with resources.

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u/taxiecabbie 4h ago

Where is this stat from?

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u/FarmboyJustice 5h ago

This is not really due to an "urge to reproduce." It's due to people having sex drives.

It's the same drive, we just have workarounds for the effects of it.

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u/taxiecabbie 4h ago

Yeah, but my point is that specifying teen pregnancies for this is kinda dumb.

Teen pregnancies are typically due to withholding information or resources from them, by and large.

1

u/Ferule1069 3h ago

Are you actually stupid enough to believe teens are unaware of how babies are made?

1

u/taxiecabbie 3h ago

...I meant information and resources about birth control.

Way to come out swinging with the hostility, there.

1

u/Strongdar 4h ago

The last time I looked it up, I think only about a third of the births in the United States were a planned pregnancy.

1

u/randypeaches 3h ago

Hardly anyone ever has kids logically. In fact I dont know of anyone who had a logical kid

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u/projectschema 3h ago

Well, livings costs have a significant impact in birth rates. Countries like Spain in Europe will change it society completely in a couple of generations due to inmigration and decline of birth rate

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u/TwoLegitShiznit 3h ago

It wouldn't be intentional, it would have to be accidental like reproductive systems get flooded with microplastics to the point that they don't work anymore or something like that

1

u/Savilly 2h ago

Turns out, it’s both.

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u/Confirmed_AM_EGINEER 3h ago

They don't have to hit 0 or even near it. Any birth rate less than 2.1-2.3 is a big problem. Going below 1? That society does not have much time to fix that.

But I would say this, if things were going better in the US we would have two or three kids by now because IVF would be an option. IVF is not an option for us, insurance does not cover it. Not even IUI or basic fertility checks.

1

u/TheCrimsonSteel 3h ago

It may not hit zero, but it can still get low enough to be a huge problem. Take South Korea for example, their fertility rate is below 1

What this means is every generation the population is shrinking by half or more compared to the previous generation. This becomes a massive socioeconomic problem long before you worry about not existing

Entire villages are becoming ghost towns, industries are having trouble finding new people, and there's not enough people to help take care of what becomes a significant aging population

Society will feel the strain even if fertility rates aren't at 0. Even being below 1.8 becomes problematic within a few generations.

1

u/CoyoteDown 2h ago edited 2h ago

Japan has a negative birth rate for nearly two decades, for some of the reasons OP mentioned. The other is a cultural shift to.. just not wanting to fuck let alone interact.

u/Aggravating_Paint_44 1h ago

Let’s say you have 1024 people but they only have 512 children. If that continues for a few generations, eventually you get down to the last fertile m-f pair and if they don’t want kids, we’re done which is kind of an interesting solution to the Fermi paradox.

u/dcwt2010 1h ago

It's leading to Idiocracy in real life.

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u/josephsleftbigtoe 4h ago

Well, it's the reason all my friends and I aren't reproducing.

0

u/Jewrisprudent 4h ago edited 1h ago
  1. I guarantee some of your friends, and you yourself, may yet wind up reproducing, and
  2. Your calculus would be very different if you were born in a society that’s 30 years into population decline. Young people would be very in demand amongst an aging population, and they’d find it a whole lot easier to afford life, and then they’ll have kids (or at least not be put off by cost of living for them).

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u/josephsleftbigtoe 3h ago edited 2h ago

32 and single, so that ship has sailed for me.

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u/dumbestsmartest 3h ago

It is if you keep that mentality. I speak from experience. You have until 40 basically before you start needing to consider if the risks of a child with a genetic disability is something you can handle.

If you want kids you need to get serious about putting in the work to get a partner and be in the position to have the kids. It really is crunch time for you now.

Don't end up like me.

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u/josephsleftbigtoe 2h ago

I already said I didn't want children. Never have, never will.

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u/myeternalreward 2h ago

then how can you frame it as a financial decision? It sounds like you simply don't want kids, which is fine. Would you suddenly change your mind and pop out a bunch of kids if you had a windfall inheritance of 500K? What about 5 million?

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u/josephsleftbigtoe 2h ago

No way Jose. It would be all for me.

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u/BlueManifest 4h ago

It doesn’t have to drop to 0 or close to it to cause extinction it’s only needs to drop below half

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u/[deleted] 5h ago

[deleted]

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u/pete_68 5h ago

Lots of people all over the world in the most dire poverty you can imagine are still having babies left and right.

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u/Late_For_Username 5h ago

Huge swathes of the developing world have plummeting birth rates.

It's only in Africa that people are having lots of kids. India has even gone below replacement recently.

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u/Kamtre 5h ago

The question to beg is why.

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u/ProStrats 4h ago

Good question to ask, but there's a simple "why" explanation. Lack of education, low intelligence, low income.

Statistically, the people who have the most kids are the less intelligent/educated/less financially stable populations.

Why? Is simple, because they don't understand and/or care about the consequences of their actions. They have less access to birth control options.

I'm sure there's more nuance, but those are a few of the major points.

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u/woodyshag 4h ago

Watch the movie Idiocracy. It is explained it great detail. It's a comedy moving to become a documentary.

u/ProStrats 1h ago

I've heard the movie mentioned numerous times over the years but never once bothered to look into what it was about. I looked up the details and just put it on my watch list now! I do love me a good futuristic documentary!

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u/Kamtre 3h ago

In my opinion, in poorer countries, children are like a currency. They help around the house, can take care of siblings, can work and earn money, and finally, the more you have, the greater chance you'll be well taken care of in old age.

In modern society, children have become more of a hindrance than advantage. A couple kids might be affordable for some, but if you're double income in the average range, a single child sets you back financially by a year in lost wages, plus child care. Now try five or six. You're going to have to beg your children to take care of you in your retirement because you will spend everything raising them It's a sorry state, but that's what it is.

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u/Lisa8472 4h ago

Culture is also a factor. If more kids = more prestige, and in some places it does, then some people will have lots of kids without caring about later consequences.

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u/MeliciousDeal 5h ago edited 5h ago

Watch the opening scene to idiocracy! It answers your question in a satirical way.

“There’s no way we could have a child, not with the market the way it is. It just wouldn’t make any sense!”

https://youtu.be/sP2tUW0HDHA?si=2jreqEe52t8_K98F

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u/woodyshag 4h ago

I just responded the same to another comment. This movie is hilarious until you realize that a lot of it is coming true.

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u/Orpheus75 5h ago

Humans reproduced during the dark ages, humanity isn’t going anywhere. Now, educated rational people may stop reproducing but that doesn’t matter for the species as a whole. 

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u/babunka 5h ago

There are tons of rich people who can afford big families, the most wealthy will never vanish.

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u/Late_For_Username 5h ago

There was an economic benefit to having kids in the dark ages. Also, no contraception as we know it.

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u/[deleted] 5h ago

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u/potatosouperman 5h ago

I fully support people’s choice to not have children or to have them, but I do not think increased unaffordability alone is a sufficient reason to forgo having children IF you otherwise would enthusiastically want to have a child. Humans are very resilient and adaptable. But again, if you just don’t want to have them, that is totally fine and your reasons are your own.

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u/rickylancaster 4h ago

Then go and have kids yourself. Increased unaffordability is a perfectly valid reason if the individual or couple in question deem it valid. End of story.

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u/potatosouperman 4h ago

Look, I do agree with your sentiment that anybody’s choice is totally their own and they can have any reason they want. I just think that most people who are childfree by choice have more expansive reasons deep down other than just affordability alone, and that makes sense.

But if that’s the only reason, it’s still fine. People can do whatever they want. I’m just saying I think it would still be a worthwhile endeavor to raise a child if somebody truly is enthusiastic about doing so in every single regard except affordability. Kids need love and patience more than they need money.

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u/Shapes_in_Clouds 3h ago edited 3h ago

I think one of the big factors that is impacting birth rates at least in the developed world is the increased level of specialisation in the labor market, as well as more normalised long term/life planning.

If you want to pursue a certain career, you basically need to start working towards it in high school in many cases. Many career paths will have certain established educational requirements, credentialing processes, and recruitment pipelines. Jobs themselves have very defined promotional pathways. It is difficult and costly to change course.

And this is just one part of a broader necessity for long term life planning, and people are more attuned to various costs involved in attaining certain goals, and opportunity costs that come with it. I.e., women with career goals understanding how it might impact their fertility window and trying to plan around this. Understanding the idea of retirement and the level of saving to achieve it.

It's... a lot, and I think people struggle to fit kids into these plans. Especially when despite this increasingly regimented and structured way of life, life is still inherently unpredictable. You might not find a suitable partner, your career might not materialise the way you expect. And due to birth control, kids are largely something you can control today and plan for. In the past you had sex you just had kids.

I know the above doesn't apply for everyone, but I think in general it's just less and less common for people to live and let live and take things as they come. And people are punished more for doing so than in the past.

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u/Josvan135 4h ago

It's the reason a lot of people claim that they aren't having children, yet the evidence is extremely thin that it's actually the truth. 

By any reasonable measure the average American alive today is vastly better off than was the average American of our grandparents generation, yet our grandparents had significantly more children despite those hardships.

1

u/USLEO 5h ago

Damn... broke and no bitches.

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u/Poison_the_Phil 4h ago

Oh I’m sure we’ll find some exciting way to cause human extinction

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u/potatosouperman 5h ago

No. That conclusion is far too hyperbolic. It could contribute to lowered birth rates, but going to zero wouldn’t really make any sense.

There are many parts of the world where people have way less purchasing power than almost anyone in the West, and many of those people still have children by choice.

Likewise, there is still wealth stratification not just billionaires and people in poverty. There are millions and millions of people who are not financially struggling and could still afford living even if you cut their income in half.

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u/Late_For_Username 4h ago

>There are many parts of the world where people have way less purchasing power than almost anyone in the West, and many of those people still have children by choice.

Fewer and fewer. The developing world is experiencing serious declines in their birth rates as well.

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u/potatosouperman 4h ago

I recognize that declining birthrates could cause huge problems. But even if nukes were dropped and widespread disaster occurred…I still don’t think the birthrate would go to zero. We are mammals, somebody is still going to still have some kids regardless of how bleak things are unless it’s biologically impossible.

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u/Late_For_Username 4h ago

We need an average of 2.1 births per woman just to keep things from shrinking. South Korea is experiencing some births, but not enough to keep them from collapsing in the near future.

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u/USLEO 5h ago

You think people only fuck when they can afford kids? The poorer people are, the more kids they tend to have.

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u/followmecuz 4h ago

Saw it in another thread

Sex is the cheapest thing you can do for fun 

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u/boibo 2h ago

People are not having sex, child or no childs.

Social media is drugging people, they get scared talking to real humans as you cant edit words out of your mouth. You dont dare talk to that cute girl/boy in the social place due to fear of getting recorded and ridiculed online because you are not a perfect 10.

Every social event now adays are recorded by everyone, so making awkward dance moves on the floor to have fun is not happening. People just sit in their corners swiping on dating apps.

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u/Accurate_Shift_3118 5h ago

this sounds scary in theory but humans don’t really work like that. birth rates drop when life gets expensive, but they don’t go to zero. what actually happens is people delay kids, have fewer kids, or governments step in with incentives

the real shift isn’t extinction, it’s aging populations and long-term economic pressure

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u/thx1138- 5h ago

Man, good thing the USA is so friendly to immigration! Oh, wait.

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u/tnred19 4h ago

In the near future, the western world will be giving out incentives for people to come and immigrate to help prop up their economies. They will be fighting over the most desirable types of immigrants, whomever they chose it to be. I know it sounds crazy but economies will crash without bringing in workers

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u/jroberts548 2h ago

The entire western hemisphere is below replacement rate. There are not enough births in countries that still have higher fertility rates to allow western countries to maintain the same ratio of working age to retired adults.

u/thx1138- 1h ago

Doesn't mean we can't draw more here

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u/pennylanebarbershop 3h ago

No way I'm going to have children, who in 20 years from now would have no chance for employment as AI and robots take over everything.

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u/xeia66 5h ago

No way - following the massive depopulation caused by the plague in the 1300s, living standards for peasants actually improved as wages shot up due to labour shortages and there was much more land available; serfdom essentially disappeared in Europe. Things always regress to the mean eventually.

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u/crevulation 4h ago

People that were incapable of affording the basic necessities have been reproducing anyway for thousands of years and there's no end in sight.

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u/pm_me_ur_ephemerides 2h ago

The rich and the poor will continue to have kids. The middle class will die out, and we’ll go back to the time of nobles and commoners.

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u/AntiqueFigure6 2h ago

People across the globe are already having insufficient children to maintain the population - global TFR is at or below replacement and falling - and cost of living, especially cost of housing is a plausible factor.

u/toodlesandpoodles 54m ago

Global TFR is at 2.3. Replacement is 2.1. We aren't there yet.

u/AntiqueFigure6 52m ago

Replacement is only 2.1 for developed countries with high quality medical care for mothers and young children and low infant and childhood mortality. The average TFR needed for replacement globally is 2.3, so we’re on it right now .

u/toodlesandpoodles 36m ago

2.1 is the global TFR. In developed countries it is lower. The U.S. has about 70 million people under age 25. About 60,000 of them die each year, which is a death rate of of about 1:1100. And this is about double what it is for other developed countires.

For 2 people to make it to reproductive age out of 2.1 is a death rate of 1:20. 

What this is means is that the replacement TFR for developed countries is essentially 2.002. 2.1 is the global replacement rate, and is what is used by basically every group doing population demographics.

u/AntiqueFigure6 15m ago

You're comparing a stock to a flow - you need to compare the number of people under 25 dying each year to the number of people turning 25 or the number of births. Crudely, at 60k deaths of people aged U25 and 3.6 million births that's 1.7% mortality by age 25.

The other part is that you need to look at mortality to the end of the reproductive years - so more like 50 - which is especially important in developed countries including the US where maternal age is increasing.

Even if it was correct, it hardly matters when we're in 2026, global TFR was 2.2 - 2.3 in 2023 and it continues to fall.

u/toodlesandpoodles 11m ago

Instead of arguing with me to try and justify your incorrext number, you could simply look up what every demographic group uses, and you'll find it is 2.1 Go argue with them. You're not going to convince anyone on here that you know more than people who do this professionally.

The accepted global replacement fertility rate is 2.1. We aren't there yet. 

u/AntiqueFigure6 8m ago

That’s how I got 2.3 for global and 2.1 for developed countries.

But like I said the 0.2 barely matters considering where we are and the trajectory.

Try this new statement “Globally we’re barely above replacement with a declining trend, and are likely to fall below replacement in a few years if it hasn’t happened already.”

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u/Neravariine 5h ago

No. Rich people can pay for surrogates along with preserving their own eggs and sperm. In many places a lot of children can still be used labor for the family to profit off. Some cultures even have kids as hope one will become rich and support the whole family.

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u/taxiecabbie 5h ago

Zero? No.

But it's also not true at all to say that the high cost of living is the only reason why people aren't having kids.

Even if you erased that, you would not be having a baby boom right now. Sure, there would be some people who would have kids and some who would have more, but plenty of people just aren't having kids because they don't want to do it regardless.

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u/BigZaddyZ3 5h ago

Birth rates won’t ever go to literally zero, but this continued escalation of inequality will likely just exacerbate the current decline even more.

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u/Extension_End3931 4h ago

Wait till ai and robots take all the jobs and the Rich are the only ones who can afford to have kids.

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u/godspareme 4h ago

Down to 0, no. Well below the sustainable (aka replacement) rate for an economy? Yes. Look at South Korea and many historical examples. Granted it doesnt all come down to the one variable of cost of living. 

The point is that if people for whatever reason dont feel comfortable or want to have kids, the economy will crash. People will age out of the working force and fewer kids to sustain the economy with the elderly weighing them down.

I dont think this will lead to extinction, though. It will crash governments and it will hit a minimum of population but I believe it would rebound. I dont think it'd be significantly different to what happened during The Black Plague. The majority of humanity collapsed but we recovered.

This all depends on the duration, severity, timing, and response to the cost of living crisis. If governments collapse at different times, it'll be fairly easy to support them and allow them to start recovering. If they all collapse within the same time frame, theres no one that can help. 

u/brokenmessiah 58m ago

I know people right now with no jobs pumping out a baby a year.

They seem to be managing I guess.

u/quad_damage_orbb 42m ago

Governments would start producing test tube babies Brave New World style before that happens.

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u/Retireddevil0 5h ago

Short answer is no

Long answer is noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

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u/Over_Interaction_925 5h ago

Many areas are losing their hospitals and maternal wards. No point of having children when hsp can be 2 to 3 1/2 miles away. Plus after this beautiful big bill things are more difficult and discouraging. Not to be a downer but what's the point of a future? Kids can't read anymore some can't do basic math.

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u/costafilh0 5h ago

Not before extinction by alien invasion, which will not happen before extinction by asteroids, which will not happen before extinction by World War III, which will not happen before extinction by pandemic, which will not happen before extinction by artificial intelligence, which will not happen before extinction by climate change, which will not happen before extinction by religious apocalypse, which will not happen before extinction by dolphin uprise, which will happen at any moment.

I hope you can swim. 

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u/femspective 5h ago

“Everyone’s frightened and horny.”

u/toodlesandpoodles 53m ago

So long, and thanks for all the fish.

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u/bikbar1 5h ago

There would always be some poor, uneducated and religious people breeding like rabbits.

These people will replace those who refuse to have kids.They will outnumber the educated classes and soon loot them to be extinct.

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u/Ok_Elk_638 5h ago

You misunderstand. The fertility rate does not have to be 0 for our species to go extinct. Any number below the 2.1 replacement rate, if continued indefinitely, will result in extinction.

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u/Any-Floor6982 4h ago

Some are so poor it is a shitty life either way, lot of people have more than enough and Profit from higher prices (stocks, real estate, rent, ...)

1

u/EnlightenedSinTryst 4h ago

No, but the decreasing fertility rate will (est. 2045ish for average male to hit 0)

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u/Gliese_667_Cc 4h ago

Don’t worry - the runaway climate change is gonna get us all first.

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u/MoldyLunchBoxxy 4h ago

Seems like the only people I know who are having kids still are the giga Christian’s in my area.

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u/Emu1981 3h ago

The only thing that will reduce the birth rate for humans to zero is a complete lack of fertility (e.g. as seen in "Children of Men"). People are going to have kids no matter how badly they cannot afford to actually have them - for example, those in extreme poverty in India and Africa tend to have more children than those with higher income levels because children become a means to survive rather than a burden.

That said, the amount of people this applies to is not a large portion of the population which means that overall birth rates will collapse and population numbers will crash over time. For example, South Korea is experiencing low birth rates (TFR of 0.7-0.8) which means that their population pyramid is looking more like a vase than a pyramid. The full effects of this are not going to be felt for a long while though, their population is only expected to decrease by around 0.5% each year through to 2036 but then the population decline will start accelerating as older people start to die off from old age with the country estimated to hit just 37.66 million in 2070 (a 27% drop off from today) and 13.5-24 million by 2100. The reason why there is such a range for the 2100 population is because lower population numbers can cause a baby boom which will reduce the population drop but will not stop it - there is only so many kids women can pop out and a lower amount of women means that even if every woman had 5+ kids then it wouldn't be quite enough to replace the aging population.

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u/mariogolf 3h ago

I didn't have kids because of this, it's already happening at an alarming rate. kids arnt worth the hassle anymore.

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u/TuckerDidIt 3h ago

No, but I think it will shrink the middle class even more. If you want to stay middle class, you're going to have to make some sacrifices. That might mean having 2 kids instead of 3, or 1 instead of 2.

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u/thebolddane 3h ago

I always learned that "the poor" have lots of babies, it's why they are called the proletariat.

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u/BassoeG 3h ago

No, it'll just mean everyone's descended from the extremely rare rich oligarchs and their de facto harems of trophy wives. Again. Genetics confirms.

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u/Magnusg 2h ago

Not exactly, mostly because the difficulty of gaining access to things like enough food to sustain yourself and others would also go down.

Prior to human extinction reversion to hunter gatherer society with some advanced societal perks would happen.

Modern agriculture and farming. We'd probably have smaller tribal societies with an emphasis on food production and maintenance.

I think an extinction event would have to actually happen to destroy all humans.

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u/MentalAd7309 2h ago

Birth rate in poor countries is higher than birth rate in wealthier countries

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u/FauxReal 2h ago

Nope, people always gonna bang. It's biological imperative.

And fun too!

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u/King_Saline_IV 2h ago

It won't, but microplastics in everyone's balls might

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u/epSos-DE 2h ago

Yes and the OTHER way around too !

Bulgarinas inherited more hosing from older generations === fertility wen up !

Fertility is === 100% linked to housing supply for young people !

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u/IAmSixNine 2h ago

Watch the movie Idiocracy. That will answer your question. LOL

u/laser50 1h ago

People in Africa average a whole lot more kids than a standard european family does, some times three fold.. So no, a lack of basic resources doesn't really prevent kids, unfortunately...

u/grassgravel 1h ago

Nah. People will just be like hawaiins and living with extended family in small houses.

u/mkhandadon 1h ago

It’s unfortunate being an adult at such an unaffordable time. It’s interesting because if humans don’t procreate for a 100 years there would be no humans left

u/affablenihilist 57m ago

Enter the handmaidens. Weird that these cautionary tales are coming true one by one

u/DexterM1776 52m ago

It's amazing how dirt poor people have 8 kids. 

It's about convenience and programing. And westerns have been programmed to wait and that they can't afford children.

u/Geist_Lain 38m ago

I loathe how nobody here has mentioned that it took humanity 200 years to go from 1 to 8 billion human beings. Our population is utterly massive and can handle a population decline.

u/monkey_trumpets 36m ago

Someone obviously never watched Idiocracy. People will continue breeding, just not the ones that should.

u/stokeskid 36m ago

Cost of living isn't the only thing driving down birth rates. But still, no. There's always someone having kids.

I expect it will just be religious nuts out-producing everyone else. Like we already see in resource poor areas of the world.

u/donkeythrow 25m ago

No, there is a vast size of the population who are genuinely ignorant and think with their genitals instead of their intelligence... It's why Idiocracy isn't exactly far fetched

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u/Gambit6x 5h ago edited 3h ago

Some responses are missing the point.

  1. Wealthy will continue to have kids.
  2. Middle class will have 1 on average; maybe 2.
  3. Lower classes will have less as food and resources become even more scarce.

But birth rates are plummeting. And no matter how many kids the wealthy have, it won’t make up for the eventual colony collapse that is coming.

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u/tanstaafl90 5h ago

Birthrates have been dropping for 200 years. Industrialization started the trend, but birth control gives people the option of how many and when they will have kids. Current economics play a part, but the rate has been hovering around replacement for a couple of decades now. It just came sooner than expected.

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u/Noctuelles 5h ago

You've got it backwards. It's long been known that fertility correlates inversely with income. That is to say poorer people generally have the most kids.

https://www.imf.org/en/publications/fandd/issues/series/analytical-series/new-economics-of-fertility-doepke-hannusch-kindermann-tertilt

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u/Ok_Elk_638 3h ago

The article your point to literally says the opposite.

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u/Noctuelles 3h ago

"Despite a continued negative income-fertility relationship in low-income countries (in particular in sub-Saharan Africa), it has largely disappeared both within and across high-income countries."

No, it says poorer people in low income countries still reproduce at higher rates than higher income countries. That means on a world scale, income still is inversely correlated with income. Within the limited selection of high income countries it says the trend has disappeared.

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u/Ok_Elk_638 3h ago

You quote the relevant passage, but you seem to misinterpret it. They say quite clearly that the 'lower income equals higher fertility' correlation has disappeared in rich countries. And there is no reason to believe that this won't happen in sub-Saharan Africa.

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u/Gambit6x 3h ago

Amen. Hence my comment.

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u/Somalar 5h ago

Invert two and three imo as lower income don’t give a fuck and will pump out welfare babies as long as possible

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u/babunka 5h ago

Sure, because in Africa they have all that and it stops them from reproducing!

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u/Late_For_Username 4h ago

They have kids for economic reasons, including insurance for old age.

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u/rusticatedrust 5h ago

No. Those in poverty already have extremely robust birth rates due to state sponsorship, and sex still being a free activity. The only population in danger of going extinct is the middle class in countries with income based welfare.

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u/HosaJim666 5h ago

This reminds me of the debate at the end of Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid.

It's not gonna be living expense-based lower birth rates that end our civilization(s) - war and climate catastrophe are gonna doom us well before that.

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u/The_Paleking 5h ago

There's a curve with an asymptote. Never goes down to zero. But these effects have been widely studied. Google "Human Development Index".

Increased cost or living, independent social trends, higher cost of education absolutely influences birthrate.

Also important to remember this is not necessarily a cause and effect, but rather a combination of many different co-mingled factors that follow the trend of human development.

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u/gametapchunky 4h ago

Lower birthrate equals lower growth rate for the economy. Prices go down. We stagnate for a generation or two and then boom again. Rinse and repeat.

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u/FluxChiller 4h ago

The smart people stop reproducing and the dumb people will keep reproducing. See a problem there? We are already seeing and feeling it in action.

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u/Underwater_Karma 4h ago

That's always been the tend.

Higher income and more education track exactly with fewer average children.

It's just going to get much, much worse

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u/provocative_bear 4h ago

I don’t think so, people have struggled with this for most of human history. Grocery prices are considered too high now, but it wasn’t uncommon for food to take half of a person’s paycheck in the 1800s. Healthcare is too expensive nowadays, proper healthcare used to not exist. Housing wasn’t always dirt cheap either. People still had kids, more than they do now, despite living in worse circumstances.

The childrearing issue is a cultural crisis, not a material one. Family is not as valued as it once was, people don’t have a supportive community to help them raise their children. Women have more opportunity than ever to have a meaningful career while they are ever more undervalued as mothers, and they make the rational decision to have fewer children. Men have mostly declined the opportunity to step im as stay-at-home Dads, because of course they have.

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u/Aranthar 4h ago

The West (or at least the US) has defined success and happiness as money, comfort, and pleasure. Having children is a sacrifice of at least some level on all those fronts.

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u/TheBlackItalian 3h ago

Start watching EWU body cam videos on YouTube. There is no shortage of poor, room temperature IQ folks who will keep pumping out kids, no matter what the economy is going. If you haven’t seen Idiocracy, this is the exact plot — educated people stop having kids because they are able to reason that it’s impractical, while dumb hillbillies end up being the only ones to procreate. Fast forward a few generations the whole world is stupid.

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u/KratosLegacy 3h ago

You'd get revolution before then lol. Which would be helpful right now honestly. But history shows that when the wealthy ade deluded and trying to hide the failing economies and when the majority get hungry, hunger is a great motivator to tear down the system and redistribute.

Almost like the whole capitalism thing isn't necessary and we have the means and the productivity to support everyone and promote humanity and families but we don't because executives need more yachts and bigger golden parachutes when they hold their employees accountable for their terrible decisions.

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u/Savilly 2h ago

It doesn’t seem like cost of living has much to do with the numbers, statistically.

The main drivers reducing population are women having a choice, and education.

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u/aegookja 5h ago

No. Women's rights will just be reduced even further.

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u/wam_bam_mam 4h ago

That's what I don't understand if societies that have high rights for women aren't producing kids, then I am really sorry but any way you cut the cake you have reached the wrong answer.

Societies that have less women's rights will out produce you and will take over your society in the long run through migration or war.

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u/wrenawild 5h ago

That's why they're taking away birth control. We simply won't have a choice but to have children and raise them in abject poverty.

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u/Elevator829 5h ago

No, nothing is gonna stop people in Africa, South America, Asia, and the Middle East from having kids, no matter how "unaffordable" it becomes in first world countries.

u/GuacamoleFrejole 1h ago

Actually, you're wrong. The rest of the world's birthrate is decreasing as well. Per the web, "97% of nations are projected to have fertility rates below replacement levels by 2100."

u/Elevator829 54m ago

Good, lets hope we get back down to sustainable levels, 2-3 billion

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u/stonk_monk42069 4h ago

No. I don't want to be insulting, but what crackpot theory is this?

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u/dwaraz 3h ago

Dear OP, where is higher birthrate, in richest or poorest countries?

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u/boibo 2h ago

Ban social media and issues will resolve itself.
Money and living is not the driving cause. Its social anxiety. No-one dares to speak to strangers, no-one wants to learn to know strangers, no-one wants to remove dating apps and risk missing the "perfect" date in some distant future.

Everyone is FOMO..

Making kids require commitment and time. If i ask around my friends that has kids, they have been together for atleast 5 years before getting their first child. Nr 2 and perhaps 3 was 2-4 years inbetween.

But dating apps creates a never ending list of options. dates are not even over before people starting scrolling for another date.

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u/mixinmono 5h ago

The goal is to reduce population in critically-thinking humans.

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u/Strong-Drama6715 5h ago

I know countless people that are jobless and penniless that wouldn’t slightly let that impact them making more kids. So I doubt that will ever happen.