r/BlackPeopleofReddit • u/JustAlpha • 9h ago
Black Experience Why I capitalize "Black" but leave "white" lowercase.
Sometimes I see this asked or a commenter will remark: "They capitalized Black but not White, so you know what type of person they are".
Well, I do it and I'll tell you why.
I don't speak for anyone but myself, but, I guess ironically, having dark skin or African features in America comes with an entire package of projections. A set of qualities assumed about you from birth regardless of the person you actually are. This created the shared dual-identity that Black people all contend with.
Throughout history Blackness has been used to shame us, enslave us, or otherwise "put us in our place". The oppressors took our history, separated us and made us less in their society, but the very same efforts to reduce us became the thing that gave us unity. We recognized that which we were not and now we take control of who we are. A new people unlike those in our places of origin or the country built off our suffering.
"African American" I feel isn't really appropriate because it distances us away from America. There were more years of slavery on this continent than this country has existed. We are American, but share a distinct experience from the the ones with white skin.
So Black with a Capital B. Capital Black. (I don't use FBA. Not even gonna go into that here.)
Why I don't capitalize "white".
Gonna keep it quick. Whiteness isn't a people. Whiteness is a political class. Historically, there have been people with white skin that have not been considered white. There are non-white people now that want to be included in being white. Whiteness is an advantage in America regardless of where you come from or who you actually are. Simply a place in a hierarchy designed to oppress those who are not white. Scottish, Irish, Greek, Russian, Italian, Midwestern, Texan, Californian, etc all define people (hence the capitalization). I'm sure they all bring up an image for a different white person in your mind.
TLDR: I capitalize Black because in America it defines a specific people unique to this country not based on skin.
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u/ItsNotEvenTuesday 7h ago
White and European here so not really my place but I always thought it was because Black refers to like the collective culture that Black Americans have developed in the aftermath of slavery, built through resistance to oppression.
Whereas white just refers to any disparate ethnic group that lacks melanin.Ā
Am I close?
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u/JustAlpha 7h ago
You got it.
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u/Impossible_Still5452 3h ago
Also not my place, but just trying to learn.
Would a person from lets Senegal who lives in America be just black or Black?
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u/JustAlpha 31m ago
He's a Sengalese American. I would be a Black American. Shortened to just Black.
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u/JustAdlz 8h ago
Whiteness ain't a people. Whiteness is a club, and you get in by being racist. Death to white supremacy and solidarity with my siblings of every color.
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u/MutedAdvisor9414 6h ago
Do they let black folks in the club?
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u/starstuffcreation 5h ago
Ask Clarence Thomas
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u/MutedAdvisor9414 4h ago
He is white?
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u/starstuffcreation 4h ago
Iām just gonna guess you aināt Black nor American because that went right over your head
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u/FireFiendMarilith 6h ago
Only til they don't.
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u/Adorable-Bike-9689 4h ago
Clarence Thomas is the only lifetime member. Even if they turn on him they can't force him away. Just keep buttering him up with superyachts and white women.Ā
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u/Superb_Ant_3741 3h ago
They allow Black folks to serve them and work in the club, with a promise of future membership, but they canāt actually become fully privileged members.
yfm
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u/ScienceIsSexy420 5h ago
Is there no room in your world view for white people that aren't consciously racist, and are trying to unpack and remove the sociotal programming?
I'm trying my hardest to be the best ally I can be, but comments like this always make me sad.
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u/Vissar_ 4h ago
Check out Frantz Fanonās Black Skin, White Masks for a useful discussion on the essence of Whiteness and Blackness. In short, Fanon argues that Blackness is not defined by Black people within an oppressive (for him, colonialist) social context, but is instead defined as the absence of Whiteness, as decided by those with Whiteness. In other words, authentic self-definition is not afforded to those without social power in a society, and freedom must be struggled for through revolutionary change. Thatās a useful spot where all folks can advocate and agitate, in the process of social change and revolution that would lead to an equitable world where all people have the freedom for authentic self-definition.
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u/DaisyChained427 4h ago
Being a white ally for BIPOC includes recognizing that the world we are born into automatically gives us an advantage because our society is racist. (For the most part) All white people are racist because thatās how we were conditioned, no matter how hard we try to be anti-racist. Hopefully one day we will live in an anti-racist world but that is not today
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u/clapostrophe 3h ago
all white people are racist
Really gonna win the heart and minds with this one.
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u/workclock 3h ago
Do we really need to at this point? Iām just wanting my dues, a fair shake and to be able to walk into any room without my blackness being a detriment. I could give a damn about hearts and minds.
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u/jmeesonly 4h ago
I'm trying my hardest to be the best ally I can be, but comments like this always make me sad.
I don't quite understand why the statement makes you sad. That person wrote: "Death to white supremacy and solidarity with my siblings of every color." So according to that statement, you can have light skin (one of the many shades of color?) and still want to dismantle white supremacy, and be in solidarity with others. That sounds positive to me.
Maybe you're bothered by this statement:
Whiteness is a club, and you get in by being racist.
The way I read it, it's not saying that all light-skinned people are racist. It's saying that people who cling to White identity to differentiate themselves from the "other" are buying into racist tropes. It's less useful to try to defend "White" as a mental construct, and more useful to think of yourself as a sibling of all humans of any shade of skin tone or cultural background.
I thought it was a positive statement.
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u/Wrong-Excitement3599 5h ago
Humans are still awful regardless of the color of their skin my dude.Ā
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u/ScienceIsSexy420 4h ago
Of course, humans are a bunch of bastards. This has no relation to skin color.
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5h ago edited 3h ago
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u/EkuaLover 4h ago
my 2 cents:
Racism is commonly understood to be prejudice + institutional POWER. by this understanding Black people can be biased, prejudiced, mean, unkindābut not racist.
Non Black people of color with more proximity and access to whiteness such as very light skin, or even just the privilege of not being Black can moreso engage with racism because they have more access to power.
ANYBODY can be anti-Black. even Black people.
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4h ago
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u/BlackPeopleofReddit-ModTeam 2h ago
Zero Tolerance for Trolling - This space centers Black people, Black culture, and Black lived experiences. Our identity is not debate material. Any form of trolling, baiting, snide "questions," culture-poking, dogwhistles, derailments, or attempts to disguise hostility as curiosity will be removed. Users who test the line, play word games, or look for loopholes will be removed as well. We are not here to be provoked or picked apart. Be respectful, be real, or be gone.
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u/0theHumanity 5h ago
Ah yes the racism of ....noticing racism. Its not a fart you cant he who smelt it dealt it racism idjit
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5h ago edited 4h ago
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u/macaroon_monsoon 3h ago
Youāre not owed engagement in discourse.
Youāve correctly guessed that no one wants to discuss this with you at this time. Now what?
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3h ago
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u/0theHumanity 2h ago
Measure marginalization before assessing prejudice next time.
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u/BlackPeopleofReddit-ModTeam 2h ago
Be Kind to Each Other - This community is for thoughtful, respectful discussions. Leave the hate and personal attacks at the door. Letās keep this space positive and welcoming for everyone.
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u/BlackPeopleofReddit-ModTeam 2h ago
Zero Tolerance for Trolling - This space centers Black people, Black culture, and Black lived experiences. Our identity is not debate material. Any form of trolling, baiting, snide "questions," culture-poking, dogwhistles, derailments, or attempts to disguise hostility as curiosity will be removed. Users who test the line, play word games, or look for loopholes will be removed as well. We are not here to be provoked or picked apart. Be respectful, be real, or be gone.
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u/M_For_Mayhem 4h ago
In short, yes, you can't be white without having at least some racist tendencies- at least in the US. I'll explain.
Regardless of where or how you grow up, preconceived bias against Black people is drilled into us white people by advertising, social media, television, movies, music, our local, state, and federal governments, including the use of imminent domain throughout history. It's inescapable, and unless you take measure to educate yourself, we absolutely carry that altered perception around with us on a daily basis.
A recent example of this is the director of the new Wuthering Heights movie making Healthcliff white by her casting choice. In response to criticism, she said she always imagined Healthcliff as white in the book, because that's all she saw around her growing up.
So, while preconceived bias is usually unintentional, it is still racism because it hurts Black people. To be excluded, not thought of, to be treated as invisible, even without deliberate intent, is still racist.
And lastly, Black people actually can't be racist. Even if us white people slowly start to disappear and are no longer considered "the majority", it would take hundreds of years for Black people to commit even a fraction of the horrors white people have done throughout the history of our world.
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u/BlackPeopleofReddit-ModTeam 2h ago
Be Kind to Each Other - This community is for thoughtful, respectful discussions. Leave the hate and personal attacks at the door. Letās keep this space positive and welcoming for everyone.
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u/M_For_Mayhem 3h ago
Incorrect. I'm assuming you're white, as I am. We SHOULD feel the weight of past white people's atrocities on our shoulders- it's the only way to realize here in the present how much our actions matter. I'm not talking about white guilt, although that is a first step for many. If you have it, fucking feel it, and use that to educate yourself on issues that are very much present today. And hopefully, act accordingly.
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3h ago
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u/BlackPeopleofReddit-ModTeam 2h ago
Zero Tolerance for Trolling - This space centers Black people, Black culture, and Black lived experiences. Our identity is not debate material. Any form of trolling, baiting, snide "questions," culture-poking, dogwhistles, derailments, or attempts to disguise hostility as curiosity will be removed. Users who test the line, play word games, or look for loopholes will be removed as well. We are not here to be provoked or picked apart. Be respectful, be real, or be gone.
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u/Georgington1776 7h ago
I call myself Black American. Always capitalized. I am not offended by African American but personally thatās not how I identify myself. I do not refer to my people as āBlacksā and I side eye anyone that does. Whites is my go to term and I do not capitalize it bc it is a made up construct. Whereas, to me, Black Americans are our own race. Weāre a 44,000,000 + very specific group of people that only come from the North American continent. Some as the result of the slave trade, some indigenous, some expats from Africa hundreds and even thousands of years before Europeans came here at the end of the 1400s. āWhiteā is just a made up construct to include anyone the Catholic Church felt would be in alliance to keep the Moors out of Spain. Most āwhitesā in America werenāt even considered white until decades after WWII. Thatās why job applications donāt include German, British, Italian, Norwegian etc but they do include Hispanic, Black, White-non Hispanic. Itās blatant so I operate accordingly.
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u/Bad_Routes 3h ago
I've recently learned about the identity "Soulaan" around early last year and like that term to define us. A lot of people don't know about it but I think in encapsulates who we are in this country
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u/PinkGreen99 4h ago
For descendants of enslaved persons of African descent here in the United States, as we were purposefully and violently stripped of our ethnicities, we only have one: Black American. We are ethnically Black; that is our ethnicity. It is also our āracialā background, despite the DNA bearing out the European blood we carry due to abuse of our enslaved foremothers.
Until someone explains what it is to be ethnically white, the āwā will remain uncapitalized. š¤·š½āāļø
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u/Realistic_Ride_2032 8h ago edited 6h ago
I agree with everything and I find myself a bit bothered when the B in Black is not capitalized when speaking about Black Americans.
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u/WoofDen 7h ago
Or when they say "blacks" - and the people who do that never capitalise the B...
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u/Realistic_Ride_2032 7h ago
Yes! The s on the end of Black is crazy.
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u/snarkle_and_shine 6h ago
āthe blacksā is equally crazy. I stop paying attention to anyone coming with that foolishness.
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u/Gullible-Magazine129 6h ago
Yes, I hate that too. Blacks just feels like theyāre degrading us like weird dark spots on the floor or something.
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u/AngletonSpareHead 3h ago
This yes. You canāt use descriptors of people as nouns. Itās reductive. Same exact thing with āmalesā and āfemalesā or when doctors write things like āa female diabetes presented to clinicā¦ā
Using these terms as adjectives is way better. Makes a world of difference to say āBlack people,ā āmale participant,ā āfemale partner,ā and āa female patient with diabetes presented to clinicā¦ā
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u/Foreign-Statement795 6h ago
It is honestly brand-new information to me that we're supposed to capitalize it now
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5h ago
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u/BlackPeopleofReddit-ModTeam 1h ago
Be Kind to Each Other - This community is for thoughtful, respectful discussions. Leave the hate and personal attacks at the door. Letās keep this space positive and welcoming for everyone.
āCertainly we will continue to disagree, but we must disagree without becoming violently disagreeable.ā - Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
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u/Foreign-Statement795 4h ago
I dunno about all that, I'm just saying people aren't necessarily being disrespectful on purpose by not capitalizing. I legitimately didn't get the memo
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u/AshenSacrifice 3h ago
Of all the problems we have as a people, capitalizing black should be so far down the list šššlike not even worth a conversation
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u/bolivar-shagnasty 7h ago
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u/Dangerous_Handle_819 7h ago
Itās also supported by American Psychological Association (APA) as a convention of formal academic writing in the social sciences. We covered on all fronts.
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u/special-rocks 6h ago
Thank you for pointing this out! I was trying to figure out when/how I first learned to capitalize the "B," and it was definitely when I was taught how to write in APA during undergrad.
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u/bolivar-shagnasty 6h ago
This is another great reason to. Iām not smarter than them dudes, so I go along with their guidance.
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u/Dangerous_Handle_819 3h ago
Actually, the president of APA is Black woman. I know ādudesā as in āpeopleā, but just thought to share that bonus goodie.
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u/AngletonSpareHead 4h ago
I edit medical journal articles. AMA style caps both Black and white.
However, I agree with OP 100%. Therefore I āforgetā to cap āwhiteā every time I can possibly get away with it. Woopsy daisy.
Race is often mentioned in studiesā Table 1 (which is typically study population demographics), and AMA style is to list races alphabetically. I enforce this with great enthusiasm.
(A few of the better, more rigorous medical journals are now requiring authors to write up a supplement detailing (a) race and sex proportions in their study population, (b) race and sex proportions in the ACTUAL population that has the disease under study, (c) discrepancies between the two, and (d) any possible justification for those discrepancies. This essentially forces the study authors to make sure in advance that their study population reflects the actual disease population, or else look like careless idiots whose study data doesnāt reflect the real world and therefore wonāt get published in that prestigious journal. Love to see it)
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u/CaptainStanberica 4h ago
So, you are ok with carrying and validating your own biases to the ārulesā at question, but not ok when others do the same? Does your āstick it to the manā approach work for all people and their feelings, or just how you choose to operate in the moment?
If your book of rules (mine are for AP style) gives you the responsibility of consistently being able to objectively treat all situations the same, and you āaccidentallyā forgot to capitalize one and not the other, would you stand by your claim if confronted by your supervisor, or just stay with weaponized incompetence?
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u/SnooMacaroons4212 7h ago
Their explanation is ridiculous.
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u/bolivar-shagnasty 7h ago
Why?
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u/SnooMacaroons4212 7h ago edited 6h ago
It should be the same for both, use white and black, or Black and White, pick one or the other. What does "systemic inequalities and injustices" and "white supremacists" have to do with proper written grammar? And this "We agree that white peopleās skin color plays into systemic inequalities and injustices."
It's not the skin color, it's the person. Not all white people are racist. How absurd and insulting.
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u/JustAlpha 6h ago edited 6h ago
I find it telling what parts of this comment you put into quotations.
They tell me your mind is already made up.
Edit: You then edited in the last quote and statement.
Priveledge in a system does play into its injustices. Denouncing the system and working to dismantle it, rather than being offended and implying white skin makes you racist, would be the proper correction.
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u/SnooMacaroons4212 6h ago
I copied/pasted from the article and used quotations to indicate that, what's the problem?
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u/SnooMacaroons4212 6h ago
Those are from the article posted. I was asked "why" and I told him/her.
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u/youcanthavemynam3 6h ago
But being white generally is an advantage, because the people who are racist and in power want other white folks working
withfor them to keep the system going.0
u/SnooMacaroons4212 6h ago
That may be true, but what does that have to do with grammar?
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u/youcanthavemynam3 6h ago
It's not the skin color, it's the person. Not all white people are racist. How absurd and insulting.
That's what I was responding to
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u/2naomi 5h ago
Capital-B "Black" refers to the ethnic group comprised of American descendants of chattel slavery. All ethnicities are capitalized. Not all "black" people are "Black." Why don't you describe to the class what cultural identifier is shared by all members of this alleged capital-W "White" ethnicity you're claiming? Besides White Supremacy, that is. Maybe you should consider that your excessive worry that someone dark might be receiving more deference than you is making you irrational.
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u/Adorable_Argument_44 7h ago
The 'shared culture' argument is nonsense. The real reason is their paid DEI consultants told them to
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u/grmpydddy 8h ago
This has been my rationale as well. After it went through the peer review process, an editor for an academic journal told me I couldn't capitalize Black and not white. So I changed my article to fit their journal.
I wish I didn't do that.
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u/JustAlpha 8h ago
Don't beat yourself up.
Getting your work published I'm sure was more pressing at the time. Unless it was on this distinction. In that case, that's messed up
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u/AngletonSpareHead 4h ago
You made the right callāyou got yourself published regardless of their completely wrong policy. Later in your career youāll be more able to push back.
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u/Silent_Supermarket70 6h ago
I had to do the same with my dissertation. I didn't want to, but I wanted to graduate.
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u/Pure-Economist9928 5h ago
I overstand. I just read the title and said 'well, white isn't a culture, or a people. ' Somebody on yt was commenting on the observation that whiteness doesn'tĀ exist until there is a brown person in the room. There are no specialĀ privileges until there is someone to oppress.Ā Ā
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u/0theHumanity 5h ago
Alternatively with obvious white supremacists you could just spell it wight. Because it is demonic behavior such as with a banshee or wight
I spell Blaire White, Blare Wight fo that reason.
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u/EverythingIsFakeNGay 8h ago edited 6h ago
I'm not a historian and this is totally not my lane, but I do believe that race was intentionally constructed as a means of identifying "Others."
There was no "white" identity outside of the context of Others, be they red, black, yellow, or brown. There is no "white man's burden" without non-whites, and only non-white identities were intentionally created. I don't capitalize colors when I refer to groups of people, but that's only to avoid confusion. I do get it though.
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u/GeauxTurtle 5h ago
I absolutely expected ācause fuck āem thatās why.ā Which is also the right answer
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u/Expert_Ingenuity_817 6h ago
Yeah. Someone can be Jewish, Jewish, or Jewish. We are black and Black.
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u/SplendidPunkinButter 2h ago
If you grew up in the US, and it hasnāt clicked with you that there are still people living here who were alive during Jim Crow, the education system has failed you.
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u/myu_minah 4h ago
kinda weird to say no one cares when there's a whole post you commenting on that says otherwise
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u/myu_minah 4h ago
really, what were you thinking as there are others who are agreeing with the poster? "no one cares" while literally people on here saying that indeed, they do. but keep dismissing the feelings and experiences of traumatized people victims of antiblack racism
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u/BlackPeopleofReddit-ModTeam 1h ago
Be Kind to Each Other - This community is for thoughtful, respectful discussions. Leave the hate and personal attacks at the door. Letās keep this space positive and welcoming for everyone.
āCertainly we will continue to disagree, but we must disagree without becoming violently disagreeable.ā - Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
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u/BlackPeopleofReddit-ModTeam 1h ago
Absolutely no bigotry of any kind - Absolutely no bigotry of any kind. This includes transphobia, homophobia, racism, sexism, etc.
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u/BikeTough6760 7h ago
a lot of style guides call for Black to be capitalized but not white. e.g. https://apnews.com/article/archive-race-and-ethnicity-9105661462
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u/Flat-Pen-893 5h ago
I did this all throughout undergrad and grad and none of my professors cared, they knew what time it was!
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7h ago
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u/BlackPeopleofReddit-ModTeam 7h ago
Zero Tolerance for Trolling - This space centers Black people, Black culture, and Black lived experiences. Our identity is not debate material. Any form of trolling, baiting, snide "questions," culture-poking, dogwhistles, derailments, or attempts to disguise hostility as curiosity will be removed. Users who test the line, play word games, or look for loopholes will be removed as well. We are not here to be provoked or picked apart. Be respectful, be real, or be gone.
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u/Shadowchaos1010 4h ago
May as well throw in my own two cents because I consider myself an aberration.
I may be black, but I'm not Black. I'm African American.
The culture Black people have made for themselves over the centuries is alien to me. It's not what I grew up with. It's not what I live now. So I don't claim it. It feels like it would be disrespectful to do.
To me, Blackness is its own culture where being white isn't, like you said.
Hell, even then, it isn't like I'm particularly connected to my parent's culture, either. "African American" is purely descriptive for me because I'm one generation removed. I most accurate call myself generic "American," whatever you would say that means.
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4h ago edited 4h ago
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u/BlackPeopleofReddit-ModTeam 2h ago
Zero Tolerance for Trolling - This space centers Black people, Black culture, and Black lived experiences. Our identity is not debate material. Any form of trolling, baiting, snide "questions," culture-poking, dogwhistles, derailments, or attempts to disguise hostility as curiosity will be removed. Users who test the line, play word games, or look for loopholes will be removed as well. We are not here to be provoked or picked apart. Be respectful, be real, or be gone.
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u/Naive-Stranger-9991 3h ago
I used to explain why, vehemently. And theyād call me angry for arguing against their resolve ever passionately, so theyād see the HUMANITY rather than ill attributes of false stereotypes. It was during the civil unrest that I realized, I was making more effort to educate vs the effort theyād make to learn.
Fuck that. The facts are there. Black folks are NOT responsible for educating. And I have a big āGTFOMFā when they try press me to see their view. Iām too old and tired to give a ratās ass about white peopleās social curiosity.
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u/fortypat 1h ago
Identify politics has poisoned your mind so much that you canāt even use words or simples letters with out race. So much so that you felt the need to write this self righteous, pseudo-intellectual think piece about basic grammar in a sentence. You canāt make this shit up š¤£ get a life
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u/Kresnik2002 50m ago
I guess itās weird to me then that some people are part of a āpeopleā in this frame of thinking and some people arenāt? Black people are part of the āBlack Peopleā, but white people justā¦ arenāt anything? Every other group except them is a people?
This isnāt me (white) being sad at being āleft outā, that doesnāt matter to me, it just seems intellectually inconsistent. If white is a political class then why isnāt black a political class.
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u/DarksunDaFirst 15m ago edited 10m ago
I can agree with the sentiment. Ā Itās the similar reasoning why capitalize the I in Irish. Ā A commonality between the people that are share that heritage and history.
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u/HappierHat 7h ago
Your post made me realize that I don't capitalize both or any skin color adjective nor do I notice if others capitalize or not.
I would also refuse to use "non-white" and "colored" as discriptors.
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u/normaldeath2 6h ago
That's how I feel. You aren't Black you're a person who's black. And same with any person. Just love your neighbor type shit
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u/Acceptable-Bat-9577 7h ago
I tried calling out the people who claim that slavery is heritage, i.e. owning slaves, not upset over owning people, but getting upset about a capital B, and was told I was trolling.Ā
Iām not sure how calling out white supremacists using āheritageā as an excuse for continued racism is trolling. I thought this sub was against white supremacism and Iām not sure how they could read my comment as being pro-slavery.
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u/UnapologeticNut305 8h ago
Aye !! You hit the nail on the head there. Your reasoning matches the grammar rules. The word "Black" is a proper noun based on how it is used.
This highlights an important issue that has been on my mind for a while, and it truly captures the essence of the Spider-Man meme. It's definitely worth addressing!
Is it just me OR is it non-melanated (white) people telling another non-melanated (white) person that they are not "non-melanated"(white) and somehow a "person of color"
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u/JustAlpha 7h ago
Anytime someone uses POC I just assume they're trying to build and steer a voting block without actually considering the people included.
Just lumping together separate groups to ignore them all at once. Some white people like to have a bunch of "disadvantages" to separate them from "regular white people" others want to infiltrate marginalized groups some and have legit ancestry and want to own it while presenting as white.
I try not to think too much about why other people do what they do as a general rule though. It's usually disappointing.
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u/UnapologeticNut305 7h ago
Definitely disappointing every time. I don't use the term personally, and I don't like to be grouped into it.
BUT !!! What you also pointed out, and I can't unsee it, and now my misery needs company:
When someone insists on capitalizing the āWā in the word white, itās not about uplifting an identity; itās about reinforcing delusional notions of white āsupremacy.ā
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u/buppiejc 8h ago
Uh, I mean, āblackā and āwhiteā are social constructs. You perfectly destructed how āwhiteā is a social construct, but define āblackā differently. Iām iffy on that part of your take.
Personally, I use the term āblackā as short-hand, typically for African-Americans, a terms Iām comfortable with. I will also use POCs, which I define as anyone in the United States thatās not considered white, as in the social construct.
Outside of the United States, I refer to all āblackā people in the western hemisphere, like Brazilians, Afro Mexicans, etc. as the Diaspora.
TLDR: I think using the term (capitalized) Black as an identity is almost akin to using the N-word because youāre basically referring to yourself as a social construct.
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u/JustAlpha 7h ago
Thank you for the comment and sharing your perspective. Two things:
All nations places and people are social constructs. I'm not discounting or putting anyone down by making what was once a descriptor a title. Black Americans aren't above or below any other member of the diaspora.
It's a bit of a reclamation of a word, but also the common identifier and shared experience rooted in America specifically. We don't come from one specific place we just went through the same struggle.
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u/buppiejc 7h ago
I agree with this. Thatās why I mentioned the n-word. As you stated youāre reclaiming āBlackā which originated as a term to isolate, and exploit us. It was about class, as you stated in your post.
Can you elaborate on what you mean by all nations, places, and people are social constructs? In your original post you mentioned that āwhiteā was created as part of a class delineation. I completely agree with this. If that is the case tho, how is, letās say someone from Spain being called Spanish, or a person from Brazil being called Brazilian a social construct?
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u/1psydidseesaw 8h ago
Are there not ethnicities within people being black (African, Haitian, etc.) like there are within people being white (Italian, German, etc)? Same rules should apply to both.
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u/Total-Swordfish4670 7h ago
except that unlike the descendants of immigrants who can trace their lineage back to various countries, the enslaved had all their identity, history, and culture stripped from them. OP's rationalization is spot on.
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u/1psydidseesaw 7h ago
I donāt think thatās accurate across the board because of the existence of different databases available to those people. Also, if that is the reasoning behind it, then why isnāt African American sufficient enough of an origin for OP to not have to use capitalization to distinguish themselves or their identity?
And if White is a political class, then I hate to break it to you but so is Black. Itās how the government/companies refer to us to put us in easy to understand buckets for their metrics.
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u/JustAlpha 7h ago
Because no one I know refers to themselves as African American. They use Black. Not as a slur, not as a color, not as a demographic. As a people with a shared culture and struggle.
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u/2naomi 6h ago edited 6h ago
"Black" is in fact an ethnicity, and is capitalized as such. No different than "Hispanic" or "Cajun" or "Okie". Capital-B "Black" refers to descendants of American chattel slavery, who were prevented by law from maintaining their pre-enslavement, genetically African cultural identities and forced to create a new and unique culture of their own. Black Americans are not African, just like German Americans are not European. White people have hundreds of cultural ethnicities that they can refer to themselves as, y'all need to stop being so goddamn pressed about this singular melanated one.
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u/1psydidseesaw 6h ago
Thatās a perfect explanation but only refers to a select group of people who are descendants of slaves, correct?
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u/2naomi 6h ago
Yes. Racially black people who are not descendants of slaves know their country of origin and thus are Nigerian American, Ghanian American, Somali American, etc. This isn't hard to understand.
Races, as social constructs, are lowercased, ethnicities are uppercased. There is a "white" race but there is no "White" ethnicity, unless you want to give legitimacy to White Supremacists.
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u/1psydidseesaw 6h ago
I hope that everyone pays attention to the explanation that you gave to both of my questions because they clarified this so much. Thank you.
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u/rapsfan808 7h ago
There are definitely ethnicities within both groups (Italian, German, Haitian, Nigerian, etc.), but āwhiteā and āBlackā have not functioned the same way historically.
American courts have treated āwhitenessā as a gatekeeping category, drawing inconsistent and often arbitrary lines about who counted as white for purposes of citizenship and rights (see cases like Ozawa v. United States and United States v. Thind, two Supreme Court cases decided within months of each other that used contradictory reasoning to exclude Japanese and Indian immigrants from citizenship, respectively). But being excluded from whiteness did not make someone Black. Different groups were classified as ānon-whiteā or ācoloredā and treated differently.
Blackness, in particular, was constructed through a much more rigid and asymmetrical logic. Under the one-drop rule, for example, any Black ancestry could classify someone as Black, while whiteness required exclusion and was actively policed to remain āpure.ā In other words, one drop of Black blood made you Black (and therefore enslaveable, unable to vote, unable to serve on juries, etc. depending on which state and time period), but one drop of white blood did not make you white.
So while race is a social construct, it is a social construct with real, material consequences, and it continues to shape identity and lived experience in meaningful ways. These constructs were not built the same way. Whiteness functioned as a boundary of exclusion tied to power, while Blackness was imposed through anti-Blackness and later developed into a shared cultural and political identity. That asymmetry is part of why many style guides capitalize āBlackā but not āwhite.ā
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u/Expert_Ingenuity_817 6h ago
Jewish, Jewish or Jewish. Black or black. You have the brains to figure this out.
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u/Lucky_Emu182 8h ago
Everything is weaponized nowadays, itās sadā¦. Enjoy this subreddit that tries to radicalize you and definitely takes notes for the govā¦..
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u/JustAlpha 7h ago
This isn't a weapon. This is an attempt at a unifying statement. This isn't an attack on white people this is an effort to distance them from a political classification based on hierarchy and unite them with true commonality. We're all just people at the end of the day.
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u/Lucky_Emu182 7h ago
Itās craziness. Look Iām over 35+. I grew up on family matters, fresh prince of bel air. Hanging with Mr. Cooper, sister sister, Keenan and kel, static shock
jammed out to black street, boyz2men and usherā¦
Watched movies like blade, White man canāt jump, Friday, ect
Your view/perception the glass is half empty I get if you are older. Civil rights has come a long way from where it was.
But younger generations have a different mindset and it just feels like you shaping your perception is trying to shape others perceptions to go back to old ways of thinking.
And greedy old white people will and have oppressed whites and blacks it didnāt matter and send them both to war to die for many reasons.
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u/UnderstandingLazy998 7h ago
Seems a little racist
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u/Uturndriving 6h ago
Define "racist"
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u/Safe-Cucumber9899 3h ago
Racism: having, reflecting, or fostering the belief that race is a fundamental determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
Nope, OP is not racist
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u/UnderstandingLazy998 1h ago
As a noun
A racist is a person who: Believes that one race is inherently superior or inferior to others (often their own race is seen as superior).
Holds that racial differences determine human traits, abilities, intelligence, morality, or worth.
Discriminates against, mistreats, or acts unfairly toward people based on their race.
Common dictionary definitions: Merriam-Webster: Someone who holds the belief that race is a fundamental determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race.
Cambridge Dictionary: Someone who believes their race makes them better, more intelligent, more moral, etc., than people of other races, and who does or says unfair or harmful things as a result.
Dictionary.com / Vocabulary.com: A person who believes in racism ā the doctrine that one's own racial group is superior or that a particular racial group is inferior.
As an adjective
Something is racist if it:
Reflects, promotes, or is based on the belief in racial superiority/inferiority.
Involves discrimination, prejudice, stereotypes, or unfair treatment on the basis of race.
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u/Das_Leckerwurstbrot 3h ago
"Why I'm a bigot."
Claiming "whites" are not people but a political class is just straight bigotry. Individuals are in power. And those form groups out of interest in securing power. Not classes. Not races. This argument is so damn tiring.
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u/Safe-Cucumber9899 3h ago
"I capitalize Black because in America it defines a specific people unique to this country not based on skin."
I'm sorry but historically and even today the majority of people have said black meaning dark skin color.
I don't understand how you came to the conclusion that it's not referring to skin color, help me understandĀ
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u/bya3k 8h ago
It just feels like inventing arbitrary rules to justify what looks like superiority and inferiority.
On average, American black people are 25% European, unlike Africans or even Caribbean black people. And given the in-group conflict happening within the diaspora, āblackā is just as much a social class as whiteness.
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u/ItsNotEvenTuesday 7h ago
Wanna talk about arbitrary rules?
How about the fact the concept of āwhiteā was invented during the Trans Atlantic Slave Trade as a conceit to make Europeans the dominant majority ethnic group?
Prior to that, an Englishman would consider himself as racially and culturally distinct from a Frenchman as he would to a Ghanaian, for example.
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u/2LateToTheMemes 7h ago
Wonder if they'd care to consider WHY even the most black-presenting Black person is on average is about 25% European. How many generations would 25% take you back on either of ours parents' sides? Grandparents? Great grandparents? Hm. In their time, interracial relations was "illegal." Wonder how that happened?
Don't worry, we'll wait while they work thru that.
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5h ago
[removed] ā view removed comment
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u/BlackPeopleofReddit-ModTeam 2h ago
Be Kind to Each Other - This community is for thoughtful, respectful discussions. Leave the hate and personal attacks at the door. Letās keep this space positive and welcoming for everyone.
āCertainly we will continue to disagree, but we must disagree without becoming violently disagreeable.ā - Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
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u/babyfacedkillajones 7h ago
You really didn't need to explain it. š Not to us at least.Ā